Flop Middle Set

[pokerzen]

I don't have a hand example to give ... but in general ... what's your line when you flop middle set?

(Let's suppose for thought-project that we call ATT8 ... and the flop hits QTs5) (the suited is not ours.)

How do you play in the face of aggresiveness?

PLO High-only.

[Kuso]

you really need reads for this. in the 50s and 100s, you're often running into top set if you get a lot of action on the flop. the exceptions are the rare players whole will play big draws fast, LAGs, and maniacs.

[pokerzen]

[JDLush]

[Kuso]

[JDLush]

[Kuso]

[Anders]

My general(barring reads/other info) middle set line is to drop it in the face of action unless I have a 8+ out draw to go with it.

/Anders

[Stoneburg]

Bottom set is incredibly easy to play. First you check, then if someone bets, you fold.

Middle set is a bit more complicated. If a nit/rock bets, you fold because either he's got top set or there is a straight/flush possible. If a laggier type of player bets, you're gonna stick around, and you'll be raising because he will pay you off with bottom set, two-pairs and draws more often than he will have top set.

[Aisthesis]

Stone, I think you're being too tight with bottom set.

On middle set, I think it depends on just what action you have to you. If someone has potted it and then there's a raise on the board you mention, then I'm giving someone credit for QQ and just folding. If there's one bet, I'll normally raise, and if they push back, I give them credit for QQ again. I think that basic line allows of various kinds of improvements, but I think it's not too bad as point of departure.

[Stoneburg]

You cannot be too tight with bottom set. I play it like bottom two-pair or top pair. If the pot is shorthanded I will bet it if checked to, but slow down/surrender immediatly in face of action or if I get called.

I think the vast majority of players would increase their winrate if they were to just check/fold bottom set.

[Xaston]

[pokerzen]

[Aisthesis]

I think this really depends overall on the game, and, if you have specific reads, better yet.

In any case, at the casino game I play sometimes, you'll usually have 7 players involved in raised pots. If position is right, someone in LP is going to bet, too. There, I really don't mess with anything except top set, and even there I'd like some decent blockers at least. Basically, you're going to have an opportunity to play 1 hand for stack, and I intend to be big favorite.

At the Stars 1/2, it's a completely different game. Usually more like 4-5 way pots, much less raising and even a lot of 3-way pots. In that situation, I think even bottom set becomes much more viable. But you have to have some sense of what you're up against. The usual "language of PLO" means that if you get a call rather than a raise, you're ahead. If raised, you're probably behind. After a call, then you just have to take it from there as to what comes on the turn and the river. But you can often take down some smallish pots with just a pot-sized flop bet. And since you're not really guaranteed a double up opportunity, then you need to win some of these small pots. And there are also raised pots where someone may very well be just overplaying unimproved AA, and I see no sense in folding ANY set to AA as overpair, maybe also with nut flush draw, but a set is still a pretty decent favorite.

[Felonius_Monk]