[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions.php on line 4783: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at [ROOT]/includes/functions.php:3888)
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions.php on line 4785: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at [ROOT]/includes/functions.php:3888)
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions.php on line 4786: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at [ROOT]/includes/functions.php:3888)
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions.php on line 4787: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at [ROOT]/includes/functions.php:3888)
more on the 4-bet bluff. stop jamming it. - Live Poker Forums

Advanced search

more on the 4-bet bluff. stop jamming it.

Hand analysis. Post your trouble hands here

Moderators: iceman5, LPF Police Department

more on the 4-bet bluff. stop jamming it.

Postby Stelvask » Mon Jan 22, 2007 2:57 pm

-[4h]-
Stelvask
User avatar
Stelvask
Enthusiast (Online)
 
Posts: 1074
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 4:24 pm
Location: SoCal

Postby High Wired » Mon Jan 22, 2007 4:01 pm

User avatar
High Wired
 
Posts: 187
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2006 3:35 pm
Location: Central CT

Postby SinkRox » Mon Jan 22, 2007 4:04 pm

The consensus seems to be that you just cannot 4-bet min and then fold. Its just a bad play and if you 4-bet more than min then you're getting too much of you stack in to then fold vs their range if they shove over the top.... (ultimately you cant 4-bet and fold). Edit: dont ask me why, i dont know the maths, but its the consensus at 2p2

Ive been 3-betting very light lately at 100nl 6max, its very addictive, and quite easy considering there's nto many other light 3-bettors or light 4-bet shovers. But at your stacks it would probably deffinatly require alot of thought and adjustment to these players.

From what Ive read I know of two routes to take...

4-bet shove the light 3-bettors with a wide range (that should obv be +ev vs theirs) e.g. A7s+ and AKo, JJ+ against the real light 3bettors.

Advantages: Negates any post flop play. Villans may lay off 3betting so light (in which case you may need to switch strats)

Dissadvantages: Maybe high varience? And you'll need spot on reads to do this (lots of player stats).

OR

Never 4-bet any hands, and consequently play lots of big pots OOP.

Probably best to try both styles. I think one of CR members played 10k hands 4bet shoving light and noted hsi results and thoughts (pretty good results).

If you get both styles down then you can switch gears when needed to really fuck you opponents up.
Last edited by SinkRox on Mon Jan 22, 2007 4:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Grinding 200nl 5max. Experimenting.
User avatar
SinkRox
 
Posts: 471
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 1:10 pm
Location: Brighton, UK

Postby KaiserSosa » Mon Jan 22, 2007 4:09 pm

User avatar
KaiserSosa
 
Posts: 226
Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2006 8:56 pm

Postby SinkRox » Mon Jan 22, 2007 4:16 pm

Imo someone who 3bets more than just TT+ and AK. (Alot of people dont even 3bet these, esp OOP).

So people who 3bet alot with 77+, AJo+ and random junk rarely aswell.

EG LP opens for 3.5x BB, we're OOP in the BB with 88. There's not much ppoint in calling for set value here against someone who raises alot preflop (we have little implied odds) so we 3bet him light to 12x BB now he doesnt really have odds to call for set and if he calls with AQ+ we take the pot alot on the flop. You basically take the initiative which is alot of +EV.
Grinding 200nl 5max. Experimenting.
User avatar
SinkRox
 
Posts: 471
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 1:10 pm
Location: Brighton, UK

Postby Stelvask » Mon Jan 22, 2007 6:42 pm

-[4h]-
Stelvask
User avatar
Stelvask
Enthusiast (Online)
 
Posts: 1074
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 4:24 pm
Location: SoCal

Postby SinkRox » Mon Jan 22, 2007 6:51 pm

Grinding 200nl 5max. Experimenting.
User avatar
SinkRox
 
Posts: 471
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 1:10 pm
Location: Brighton, UK

Postby iceman5 » Tue Jan 23, 2007 12:54 pm

iceman5 [As]
User avatar
iceman5
Semi Pro (Online)
 
Posts: 13875
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 6:49 pm
Location: Texas

Postby tinodwg » Wed Jan 24, 2007 6:16 am

User avatar
tinodwg
 
Posts: 281
Joined: Fri Mar 24, 2006 7:15 am

Postby iceman5 » Wed Jan 24, 2007 6:54 am

iceman5 [As]
User avatar
iceman5
Semi Pro (Online)
 
Posts: 13875
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 6:49 pm
Location: Texas

Postby excession » Wed Jan 24, 2007 7:40 am

If I raise with A3s for example and then you 3 bet me. If I 4 bet you to $200 and you push, I have to fold my A3s and I lost 1/3 of a buy in.

If you flat call me, what am I gonna do? Shove any flop? Im OOP with only a pot sized bet left.



Well if you are in for half a pot pre-flop it seems to me that shoving first to act is exactly the correct thing to do.

This is one of the reasons I rarely 3 bet even with position - the more I escalate the pot towards either of use being pot-committed early the more I lose positional advantage and the less I can win by outplaying villain post-flop.

In or out of position I'm quite happy to let the villain have the last word pre-flop if it means I can count on him betting the pot on the flop because he feels he has the vig and 'has to bet'. OOP on the flop I will check to raiser with anything other than a good draw or monster (set) usually.

If they are the PFR and I have cold called in position they seem to fire a CB almost all the time.

I've kept the pot small pre-flop and can let it go - if I have hit or smell weakness I am in a good position to extract decent money.

Obviously I will often 3 bet premium hands in LP (or OOP limp-push them) - here I'm talking about the range outside AA-QQ and AK.
User avatar
excession
Enthusiast (Online)
 
Posts: 3872
Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2004 3:52 pm
Location: manchester uk


Return to No Limit Hold'em Cash Games

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 23 guests

cron