River play? ($200PLO 6max)

[Ojingo]

Been at the table for about 20mins and been playing pretty aggressive in position. Most of the time a raise got it HU to the flop where a cbet took it down, and I only checked one hand down. I'm suspecting that people are getting ready to play back light.

One limper, I raise [6h][7h][Td] on the button.
BB calls, limper calls. BB is unknown, but has about half a stack and is whining incessantly. Limper is semi-regular, but I don't have a lot of notes on him. He's got $250, I cover.

Flop: [5d][7d]. Checked to me, I check behind (obviously can't stand a checkraise here)
Turn: . Checked to me again, I pot for $26 or so. BB folds, limper calls.
River: . Checked to me.

Should I
1) check behind
2) make a standard value bet, fold to a checkraise
3) make a standard value bet, call a raise
4) bet pot

[pokerzen]

[Ojingo]

[pokerzen]

[Anders]

I'd bet my standard value bet here, 1/2 - 2/3 pot or so, folding to a C/R

/Anders

[Stoneburg]

Yeah I think you should make a valuebet here with the second nuts (and fold to a c/r). I think he was probably on a flush draw and will fold but I still bet for two three reasons:

1. He might be stubborn and call with a set or two-pair
2. I don't like showing my cards for free
3. I don't want to promote the image of only betting the nuts on the river, because most of the time when I bet on the river, I want to be called

[Felonius_Monk]

I would bet the flop.

I would make a standard value bet and probably call a raise (though depends a bit on player - against unknown I guess folding would be OK but it's hard to see him laying a CR here with the nut straight, and very unlikely he has it anyway). But I would only expect to be raised here one time in maybe 20 or something.

I don't think checking down is too bad at all here.

But I'd still bet the flop.

[Ojingo]

Betting the flop seemed dubious at the time, given table dynamics. Sometimes I will bet that flop, but I expected to be CRed lightly here, and I don't aim for a 100% CBet frequency; not just because of the "small draw, take the free card" thing, but also I find that not always CBetting makes it easier to keep a read on my opponents, since they maintain at least a bit of respect for your bets.

Outcome: I bet the river for value. Villain instantly CRaised. I called and lost. I think villain chose a good spot for a river checkraise, given that his hand is disguised and that in this spot I will take another stab with a missed draw quite frequently. Also, it adds to the credibility of his bluff checkraises in the future.

[Felonius_Monk]

I bet here because:

a) Most importantly, you're in position, and I basically always bet an unraised pot when I have position on the field and a good hand. If OOP the later streets are much harder to play but I have no problem playing a good sized pot here because I am better than the other players and will always be last to act.
b) Your hand is good - it's got 40%+ equity against virtually every other hand. Of course you could get squeezed between two better draws, or a higher flush draw and a set or whatever, but there's no reason to suspect any of that at present.
c) Betting helps you clean up your yanky flush draw against any draws up to a K (e.g. most players won't call here with an 8-K high flush draw). It may also clean up your straight/2-pair outs a bit. Not betting is kind of giving up on all these possible holdings because if you turn any of them there are several opponents who could have you beat and it becomes harder to bet IMO.
d) there's significant fold equity. Not betting the flop, and THEN betting the turn (where there is a FAR smaller chance of getting all your opponents to fold and to win the pot outright) seems a backwards strategy to me, you minimise your fold equity.

It seems baffling to me to raise a yanky hand preflop (which I often do in LP and have no problem with) and then check if when you hit an excellent flop. What exactly are you wanting to flop here? Ideally, when you hit your flop, you're hoping either everyone folds (fairly likely), or that you get called by a bare flush draw with position and a good shot at outplaying them, or you get raised by a bare draw/two pair/set or something and get it all in as neutral EV or slight favourite against that range. I wouldn't raise if you're not going to bet when you hit your flop, it seems counter-productive to me (although I'm playing quite passive of late and I have, on occasion, made checks in not dissimilar spots, but here I think you have to fire; I find myself getting gunshy like this sometimes when I think my image is getting pretty loose, which, when you think about it, is daft - keep pushing it). You should also note that BB can't put any hurt on you here (once you bet you're pot committed to his stack size), so you're only looking to one player who could force you into a mistake for your stack.

My two penneth anyhoo.

[OneCellShortOfABrain]

[Ojingo]

All the reasons you guys give for betting the flop are acknowlegded, and HU I would bet this 100% of the time. 3way I bet this about 80% of the time, and the 20% of times I check is when I have a feeling that people are fed up with me and/or I don't have a grasp on the likelyhood that they will checkraise me with air/semibluff. Maybe I should just get into the habit of pounding regardless...