Cautious play early

[Aisthesis]

My point here is really this (FlopmyFlush will no doubt disagree, but maybe we'll get some constructive debate going): Avoid getting your entire stack into the pot early unless you have the nuts.

Ok, this sounds great, but what's tricky in executing this is not playing weak-tight as a result. And, actually, I've definitely also done that. After some bad beats, started betting less than pot on the flop, etc. Not at all good.

But actually, betting full pot on the flop is simply what you need to do to protect your hand and avoid APPEARING weak-tight. Similarly, betting the turn. Now, at least with the Stars starting stacks and blinds, it actually takes an enormous amount of action even to get T500 out of your stack at the early stages (particularly 10/20 and 15/30, at 25/50, if you haven't grown, you are getting a good chunk out there). As a rule, it's a question of betting the river with some strong hands. I don't view getting down to T1,000 as a disaster, although it's unpleasant. You still have the backup plan of all-in or fold at the 50/100 level, and you can take your time somewhat in picking your spots. And even a shorter stack is recoverable, but below T1,000 isn't too bad (I say that although I've myself made recoveries from that, and, in fact, TightWad the other day in a tourney we played together was way down and then bounced right back up there, may have even been big stack at one point, so it is doable. You're just under a lot of pressure.)

Here's an example, however, of what NOT to do. I'm playing in a big multi and have JX in BB. Several limpers, inlcluding UTG, who is a pretty tight player. Flop comes J22. Well, not horrible for me, but I'm not betting that from UTG and in fact would have folded to any bet. But it's checked around. Now, the turn comes another J, so my kicker problems are solved. Now, I'm really worried more about trapping, because I figure I have at worst a split, and someone may have been slowplaying A2. So, what I'm really hoping is that I can get some money in from the smaller full house. So, this time I bet half the pot. I "know" my hand is good, so let's get some money in there if at all possible. UTG calls, all others fold. Ok, so UTG was playing something like A2s (didn't exactly expect that from this player, but ok--or maybe he has a little pair that he thinks beats my mere A kicker). River comes something irrelevant, as it hardly could be at that point, and I bet about 2/3 of the pot. Now, I get raised reasonably. Well, obviously, I'm not laying this down, and had my opponent moved in right now, I don't think one can possibly do anything but call here. But he didn't. And what do I do? I re-raise. Now, I can't say exactly what the quantities were without looking up the hand histories. But just calling his raise is a sizeable pot, AND (!!!), as I was aware but just didn't take seriously, I don't have the nuts here. Quad deuces beat me. Well, that's exactly what he had, and I go out.

Ok, in a cash game, I probably will just push here. But I think my river re-raise was just a really stupid mistake. Calling the initial river re-raise leaves me with something like T900 or possibly T1,000. I can actually do something with that stack. A win or a split is helpful. But losing ends it.

Ok, now similar principles in an 18-player that I just finished (and won).

1) Early, I'm in EP with QQ, which I raise. A few callers, including one guy who is just over-aggressive, although he hadn't come out too strongly until this hand. Flops comes raggedy, with some straight and flush draws possible (97X, I think). I bet out pot, which is sizeable here after the raise (and I already have a good stack going, at somewhere around 1950, which is actually biggest at that stage but not enough to be by any means dominant). Only LAG calls. Turn another rag, which I think does make for an actual possible straight, but it would be a very strange one. I bet 2/3 pot, LAG, who has a stack almost equal to mine, moves in. Ok, if I fold, I'm left with 1,650 or so, which is actually not at all bad. Now, what I really feared was something like 2 pair with 97, set is also possible. But, honestly, if I had to bet on it (as I suppose I did), I think it was close to 50/50 that I had the best hand. I lay it down, and I think this is really the only way to go here.

2) This is a hand where LAG isn't in. I have JTo in BB and the flop comes JTX. I bet pot of course, and get 2 callers. Turn is I think a Q, half the pot. River is a high rag. Now, here's the key: The way the action is going, I don't think anyone has the straight, which is possible but a little odd here. But I CHECK here (probably would bet the river here in a cash game) because there's simply enough money in the pot right now. You don't have to protect your hand any more on the river!!! Again, I think in a cash game, I probably would have bet the river, but in early tournament, I don't think it's a good idea.

3) Now I'm around 2,500 and it's going back and forth with LAG as to who's the chip leader. He's fairly typical of these guys who do often get big stacks, but they don't hold onto them. I usually do (or at least try to, and in any case I'm not using them to move in against anyone that can hurt me). LAG actually is in this hand, as I recall, with a limp, and I have TT in BB. There are 3-4 limpers and I check. I actually like this move, again because I want to see the flop, and there are a couple of players who might be inclined to raise more than I want on TT. So, I'm just looking for set or overpair here. Well, the flop comes quite differently, and it gives me another option for the check. Flop is J77. I check, LAG bets pot, and I checkraise after folds to pot plus double his bet. LAG folds. Now, on this one, LAG may have actually laid down the best hand, but my having the 7 is also very plausible with a check from BB. So, what actually started as a good hand turned into a nice hand to bluff with.

4) I have QQ in BB with a nice stack (LAG is big stack) and blinds at 50/100. LAG raises from UTG+1 to T400 and I call. Plan: I lay down to A or K. Otherwise, we are playing for our stacks here (he can do it once but not twice!). Well, this flop poses quite different problems: It's Q9X all clubs. So, now I have top set on a suited board. My plan now, call anything as long as a fourth club doesn't show up (I know LAG is going to put in something, and if he bets low, I'm not going to give him odds to draw to the fourth flush card). If he really has AKs in clubs, so be it at this point. Ok, so I check the flop with top set and he bets pot. I call. Turn a blank. I bet half the pot and he calls. River another blank. I check and he moves in. He turns over 99 for middle set, so I win, and am now a dominant stack relative to the field at something like T4,000.

Now, the rest of the tourney in brief, as long as we're this far: I play cautious bullying, particularly as it gets shorthanded and grow to over 5,500, still dominant stack. Stays that way at final table, although I tighten up when we go from shorthanded to 9 players. Now, I have to make a laydown or lose some chips somewhere in here, and the blinds are getting bigger. Moreover, one guy at the table who had worked his way up slowly to around my stack size has a great run of cards and wins like 7 hands in a row as it gets a little shorthanded. So, I get down as far as around 2,800 (blinds now at 100/200 with antes) whereas this guy has T17,000 at one point!!! I actually got down that far shorthanded when I tried to steal his blind with KX and got re-raised at bubble time. Well, I'm actually still the second biggest stack, so I just folded it. I figured I could fold my way through the bubble, as huge stack wasn't really letting people see flops without being all in. So, I completely changed my normal strategy, as there was one mini-stack, who lasted a while, but huge stack was calling all-ins on pretty much anything.

Ok, now we make it past the bubble, and my plan is to open up, as I did. Blinds are still at 100/200 w antes but getting ready to go up. I move in from the button with A9o and get a caller to double up. Soon, I'm up to T6,800 and huge stack is down to 12,000. Then I take the stack of 3rd place to get it pretty close to even going into the HU. Blinds are 300/600 by now, so it doesn't take much more than a couple of raised aces, which I picked up, to put me in the lead. Then I flop 2 pair where he has top pair on the flop and raises my bet to all-in, and I win.

Sorry to have bored you guys with a kind of complete tourney report there, and I of course had some nice breaks. But my main point regarding the early stuff is the strategy of betting aggressively but at the same time not inviting opponents to put you all-in with river bets. Another thing I see people doing all the time is betting straights and flushes heavily on the river with a paired board. I don't like it. Sure, you want to win some money with your straight or flush when you hit, and you may want to call an all-in despite the paired board. But I don't think you should invite a possible boat to take your stack. In actuality, if you bet the river somewhat conservatively on these, the full house will probably only take a part of your stack for fear of folding you out with a bigger bet. And it is very possible to make a small stack of reasonable size back into a big one.

[Telemachus]

Great post. The dilemma of avoiding getting all of my chips in without the nuts while avoiding playing a weak-tight game has been giving me problems.

On the first hand you refer to, where you make the best full house and the other guy has quad deuces- that is such a tough one not to re-raise, but I see the point you are making. You know that, most of the time, and certainly at the lower buy-ins, you are getting action from someone with a single 2 for a lower full house. In most cases, I will assume that 4 of a kind isn't out there, for exactly the same reason that I will almost never throw away KK pre-flop- because you are up against AA or quads so rarely, thinking that you might be makes you weak-tight, and terrified of the monsters under the bed. I think the example you give is a good one, and I agree you should have flat called, having thought about it. Before, though, I probably would have re-raised like you did.

[Dumb Snowman]

[Aisthesis]

[Dumb Snowman]

You make a good point about people staying loose even after they get a big stack. They're just not good at the style. Once you get a big stack you should start winning the small pots instead since people will be afraid to tangle with a big stack.

[Aisthesis]

[Dumb Snowman]