Ideas for shorthanded play PLO Hi?

[Pok 7's]

[Ojingo]

There are many things to say about starting hand selection (roughly I would say that you should loosen up in LP and play EP roughly the same as you would play EP/MP in full ring), but the main thing is that you should identify how you're going to make money at the table (calling stations, overaggressive players, etc.) and play specific hands because they fit into the strategy for exploiting errors.
Position is a huge advantage, so I typically raise anything playable in the CO, button.

I think that, while starting hands are important, your overall strategy of trying to exploit opponents should come first, and then which hands you play is a function of that.

[Pok 7's]

Well here's the situation. We're talking micros here, $5, $10 tables usually (starting from the very bottom here ). Now I might be wrong but I don't know if "playing the players" so to speak will have much value. We're talking usually the whole table sees the flop, not sure how to exploit players like that. The impression I get is most people at these levels are taking the "It's the same as Hold em only with more chances to make hands" type approach.

So bascailly making moves aren't really applicable in many situations I don't think. My relation is it's basically the same as playing "no fold em hold em" Where you might be able to get someone off a hand once in a rare while but for the most part you need to showdown a hand more often than not.

So in these situations is it possible to exploit calling stations? The only real way I know how from my background is to do that by staying with stronger hands usually. Since they only consider what's in their hand and pay no attention to anything else ususally.

[pokerzen]

How are your results so far Pok?

[Felonius_Monk]

Ojingo always writes really good stuff on this forum. I agree with him wholeheartedly here.

[Pok 7's]

[Aisthesis]

Yeah, I think 3 cards and a dangler is good, also probably almost any ds unless it's really horrible. I think you at least need to get up to 30% VPIP and probably more like 35%--although at the micros fairly tight might even work, if they're just throwing money around like crazy.

I haven't played much short-handed (except HU) but actually had a kind of fun experience last night: All of the full $100 tables had big waiting lists, so I thought I'd try to start a new table. Sat for a while, when one guy say down. Then said in chat that I wanted to wait for a couple more, so he left. Then waited still more (kind of surprized me, since there were 10 players or so on waiting lists).

Finally, when someone did sit down, I figured I'd better go ahead and play in the hope it filled up. Anyhow, I played kind of medium-tight (certainly looser than FR, but pretty tight by shorthanded standards, I think), caught some sweet flops, and draws were hitting... But I ended up making $140 or so in 45 minutes, although we never did have more than 3 players. It was just a bunch of looseys, who tried to buy constantly, and made for a few tough decisions. But I trapped a little against the one complete maniac, then played pretty straightforward against one guy who seemed pretty decent (and just treaded water when it got down to him and me).

Anyhow, while my goal was really to get through the short-handed game breaking even in the hope of getting a decent full table going, I had a pretty nice winning session just playing short-handed. Several guys would just give me their stacks and then leave, so it never did turn into FR, but it worked...

I guess one other thing: I think 3 big cards with a suited A is definitely worth an LP raise shorthanded, and it's sometimes not even a bad idea in FR. General idea here is imo: Try buying some pots, which becomes easier if you look pretty tight. Release when you're beat (!!!). And select your hands well enough that you can hit some monsters when they think you're buying or think the flop must have missed--like decent little wraps, if you get them are also worth raising particularly against aggro shorthanded players, because they don't expect a tight-looking player to raise those hands. And you just check it if you miss as a general rule.

[Aisthesis]

Yeah, after reading through the responses, Oj is definitely right on.

If you're treading water, you might try some HU SNGs in PLO at whatever stakes you like--maybe like $2 or something to be comparable to those tables. For me, anyway, it's a much more focussed introduction to shorthanded play and getting comfortable playing a lot of junk.

I also would think it would be very difficult to win shorthanded or HU without a lot of raises. They definitely put the pressure on opponents.

If everyone is just calling everything, then maybe try raising max simply on all premium hands in CO or button. Then bet the flop according to the situation--just don't get involved in the NLHE CB syndrome. Ok, imo a good overpair (KK or AA for sure) is still worth a CB in a 3-way pot on an innocuous board, but you don't want to get very attached to it, etc.

[pokerzen]

Most of the winning 6max players I have in my database have a VP$P around 30% ... a few more are up even near 40% ... however these are generally good post-flop players in my estimation.

A couple of strategy tips 6max ... find the maniacs and sit to their right (Thanks again ED!). Wait for them to raise up pre-flop (check it over to them if necessary) and then bash them over the head with AAxx and KKxx. It works most of the time. Usually you want to get as much of their dough in pre-flop as possible ... you don't want to find a situation where you need to chicken out post-flop.

Eg scenario works like this ... you're on the button with AAT9 ... everybody has called around ... maniac is the big-blind ... you limp in your AAxx hand hoping (usually knowing) that BB is going to pot it ... there will be hopefully enough callers to get the pot up to $4-5 ... here's where you re-pot. Maniac will call or repot every single time. It's in their nature. Now you've got a healthy pot going ... get all in if you can. You'll lose the pot sometimes, but against the chronic raiser you're always ahead. Sometimes you're even lucky enough to get a 3-way allin.

The reverse of this is playing against a tight player who doesn't raise very much. When they do, you can know in general that they're holding an AAxx hand ... against this type of player, you want to call in and hope to flop 2 pair or better against them. Let it go if the board pairs but other than that you can usually call down the AA fan ... they don't like letting it go.

I've established an image as an AA raiser, mostly from my plays against the maniacs ... this affords me a bit of leeway ... I can raise in position and get away with it a lot. If the ace hits on the flop I just represent, and am usually believed. If I'm called out on it, no big deal I just get away from the hand on the turn.

I'm a fan of doing slightly better than min-raises pre-flop on my strong multiway hands ... med wraps, middle pairs (9988) etc. Situations like that I like to build a pot that everyone will call into ... so I don't pot ... but I will throw out a 3-4BB raise especially if everyone's already called. This way when you do hit your hand strong ... a) there's something in the pot to get, and b) you'll get action on it

Those are just a few things ... I'm always learning too and these are pretty unsophisticated plays ... but they are moneymaking plays at the micro level.

[pokerzen]

As for starting hands ... I've started throwing away non-suiteds ... they are just too hard to play post-flop. Having a dangler is okay 6-max but the other 3 need to be better than average to play the hand.

Also, don't worry too much about being passive ... I throw away a LOT of hands ... I just tend to get paid off big on the hands I make. My basic strategy is simple ... I set my standards higher than the rest of the table ... they bet their asses off on 2 pair and a T-high flush and crap like that ... I let them pass the money around the table until I KNOW the hand is mine ... (or that I'm a huge favorite) ... they call huge bets with crap and I get paid. So I lose a lot of small pots and I win a few big pots. It works.

[pokerzen]

I know I'm going on a bit here ... but I'm only 1-tabling so I've got some time on my hands. What I wrote above makes me think of a common scenario.

I'll pot-bet a made nut straight on the turn with 2 to a flush on the board. The river will hit ... it's not only the 3rd flush card but it also pairs the board. I sigh and prepare to check-fold. Both of my calling opponents will check as well and the pot will slide to me. Soooooo ... exactly what were you calling with geniuses? Micro PLO ... gotta love it.

[Ojingo]

[Pok 7's]

[Felonius_Monk]

Lots of good stuff here - I'm going to have a read through myself as I'm playing a bit of SH (crypto have introduced 6-max tables and now most of the 200 PLO is played on them).

[Pok 7's]