54, top 2 pair, a little deep (($100NL 6-max)

[ua1176]

$100NL 6-max @ Tribeca

UTG+1 limps, i pop it to $4.50 OTB w/ [4h]. effective stacks $160-ish. villain seems semi-competent like most FT multitablers. nothing especially intimidating so far but he's also a relative unknown so no specific reads.

flop: [4s][3c]
pot: $10

check, i bet $10. he CR to $35. my action?

jon

[stickdude]

[ua1176]

[Al Green]

[Zmej]

[k3nt]

Why on earth do you check behind on this flop with AA? Serious question, I'd like to learn something today.

IMO this hand is way better than AA because it makes it very unlikely that villain has 55 or 44. So you're scared of precisely A2, 33, and 67. His range is much wider than those hands, and you have outs against all of them. I think he's on an AA-77 (overpair), 66, 22 (pair + oesd), and two random clubs pretty often here.

If stacks were 100BB I would just push. At 160 BB though ... a little urk moment.

I guess I would think about a reraise to $80-$85. I think that's close to the pressure point -- he knows that if he goes any farther he's committing his whole stack, but you've only committed about half your stack.

Call the CR and shove a blank turn over a bet also sounds good.

[Zmej]

[k3nt]

I do see what you're saying, but ...

54 has redraws against 67 and A2. AA doesn't.
54 makes 55 44 53 and 43 unlikely. AA doesn't.

So if effective stacks were 100BB, I wouldn't want to go broke with AA here, but I wouldn't mind at all with 54.

Depending on the opponent, my CR range on this flop could include pretty much any overpair and a bunch of club and straight draws, as well as made hands. Some players raise preflop OTB with crap, they need to be kept in line.

What you're saying about checking behind with AA is: you want to get 2 full bets out of a decent player with a lower overpair, and the best way to do that is to check the flop. Is that right?

I can see that on dry boards, but this one has too many draws for me to feel super happy about giving a free card. Any club, A, 2, 6 or 7 makes me pretty unhappy.

[Zmej]

These redraws don't make much difference IMO as it's only 4 outs, and I agree that 54 is better than AA here but not much, especially when you face a lot of action.

CR small overpairs here is not good IMO, as you can’t stand any heat. You can CR T9o here with the same result, i.e. if he 3bets you will fold, if he calls and puts some pressure later you will fold. Competent opponent is going to 3bet you with draws, big hands and a lot of bluffs if he suspects that you try to play back light.

If I chose to CR here my range would be made mostly of draws, big hands and some bluffs. I think that I can get more value from hands like 88 if I don't CR them on flop (turning them into a bluff).

Ok, to answer your original question about checking behind with AA or 54 here.
There are several reasons, of course, and it applies only to somewhat competent opposition. I am not happy if I get much action on flop and I’d rather control the pot and play a medium sized pot. With this check I balance my range, and stop the attempts of stealing the pot from me when I check flop, if opponent leads into me on turn I will raise almost always. Another point is how well my hand would do against a draw, if he has a hand with 13+ outs, the money that go in on flop go on a 50/50 basis, i.e. my expectation is 0 if I put the money on a blank turn I will be much bigger favorite. I also underepresent my hand can get paid by a bunch of weak hand A5, 88 etc (it goes into balancing my range part too).

If the flop were less coordinated I would be more inclined to choose {bet flop, check turn, call/bet river} line, but I would balance it with some flop checks too.

P.S. I am not sure if my reasoning is very clear. I can elaborate on some points if necessary. I have an intuitive feeling that a flop check is good here against better opponents, but I need to think in order to quantify/logically explain why.

[ua1176]

well. i shoved the flop. for a few reasons.

1: it looks like i may be drawing, and may induce a call from a one-pair hand.

2: i really have absolutely no way in hell to figure out whether the turn card is good or bad for my hand (unless i boat up, obviously).

3. i dont mind showing down. i want him to know that my opening range in position is nice and wide, and that he can't expect me to fold 2 pair

so he thought for a bit and called with 66.

interesting thing is im about a 1.5% dog to 66 on this flop. go figure.

my hand held up though.

[k3nt]

[ua1176]

[Zmej]

[soop]