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Top 2, donk blocker on the turn (NL1000 ) - Live Poker Forums

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Top 2, donk blocker on the turn (NL1000 )

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Top 2, donk blocker on the turn (NL1000 )

Postby Triple B » Tue Jun 19, 2007 1:37 pm

I raise JTo from the CO to 35, BB (loose, bad, fairly passive since he calls way too much) calls. He has 900, I cover.

Flop is [Jc][Ts][9c] ($75)
BB check-calls $60.

Turn [6d] ($205)
BB bets $45. Hero????

Do I:
a) call for pot control and re-evaluate river.
b) raise, fold to shove or river bet.
c) raise, call shove or river bet (depending on river card)

Obviously I am not folding. I have no read on what this bet means though it seems to be a blocker that wants a cheap river card...

Mainly I am looking for is opinions on what to raise to if you raise, and if we call a shove.
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Postby GodlikeRoy » Tue Jun 19, 2007 1:50 pm

I would raise and seriously contemplate folding if he shoves. A passive guy just isn't shoving something like JQ or KT with clubs there, besides, if he's aggressive enough to raise a combo draw he would do so on the flop. If he 3bets your turn raise he has a straight like 90% of the time or something stupid.

That said, he will rarely have the straight here and most of the time have some sort of medium to strongish strength drawing hand. It's also possible he has a hand like AJ and even then he may call a raise.

So raise to $270 or so and fold if he shoves. If he calls then re-eval on the river. If it's a brick and he bets, we're calling. If he checks, we're shoving. If it's a scare card and he bets, we check behind. If it's a scare card and he bets, we look at the odds we're getting, which scare card it is, and make a decision - but this will usually be a fold if something like the [8c] comes and he bets.
Poker is silly.

It is not enough to be good at chess, you must also play well.

Somewhere in the world someone is training when you are not. When you race him, he will win.

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Postby DoctorHandles » Tue Jun 19, 2007 2:16 pm

The better player should win the race. Always.
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Postby Stoneburg » Tue Jun 19, 2007 2:25 pm

Image
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Postby shamdonk » Tue Jun 19, 2007 2:43 pm

Be glad your opponents refuse to fold; if they didn't, you just might go broke.


(9:00:09 PM) GodlikeRoy: i think you could prolly post total shit for the next 2 years aaaaand like 192 days and you'll still be considered 'posting good' cause of your threads that'll never be seen thread
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Postby GodlikeRoy » Tue Jun 19, 2007 4:57 pm

Poker is silly.

It is not enough to be good at chess, you must also play well.

Somewhere in the world someone is training when you are not. When you race him, he will win.

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Postby shamdonk » Tue Jun 19, 2007 6:39 pm

Be glad your opponents refuse to fold; if they didn't, you just might go broke.


(9:00:09 PM) GodlikeRoy: i think you could prolly post total shit for the next 2 years aaaaand like 192 days and you'll still be considered 'posting good' cause of your threads that'll never be seen thread
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Postby GodlikeRoy » Wed Jun 20, 2007 1:26 am

Poker is silly.

It is not enough to be good at chess, you must also play well.

Somewhere in the world someone is training when you are not. When you race him, he will win.

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Postby shamdonk » Wed Jun 20, 2007 7:22 am

Be glad your opponents refuse to fold; if they didn't, you just might go broke.


(9:00:09 PM) GodlikeRoy: i think you could prolly post total shit for the next 2 years aaaaand like 192 days and you'll still be considered 'posting good' cause of your threads that'll never be seen thread
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Postby GodlikeRoy » Wed Jun 20, 2007 8:02 am

I think it's probably so close to neutral ev that it doesn't matter, and only increases variance. If he didn't raise the flop with [Qc] [Tc] then I really doubt he's bet/3betting the turn with it often at all. Still, even with this in his range (as well as KTc, ATc, JQ) as well as made hands we beat or draw with (JT, J9, T9) it's only a little +EV for us (we are getting 3.4 : 1 on the call and our equity is about 34%). Remove the drawing hands and some combinations of QJ and it's -EV.. so yeah, it's close, and I don't think either of us can conclude one way or another that it's much better to call or fold. If we raise his turn bet to $300 and he shoves, it seems like a call, whereas if we raise to $230 or so and he shoves, we can fold. The fact that he's passive makes it less likely imo that he's bet/3betting a draw or weak hand on the turn and more likely that he slowplayed a big hand on the flop and is getting the money in now. This is what would make me lean towards a fold, but after playing around with hand ranges I agree that calling would be fine too.

Of course I think 90% of the time he will either fold or call your raise, so it's almost kinda pointless discussing what to do when he shoves since this situation will occur so rarely.
Poker is silly.

It is not enough to be good at chess, you must also play well.

Somewhere in the world someone is training when you are not. When you race him, he will win.

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Postby shamdonk » Wed Jun 20, 2007 10:52 am

Last edited by shamdonk on Wed Jun 20, 2007 10:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
Be glad your opponents refuse to fold; if they didn't, you just might go broke.


(9:00:09 PM) GodlikeRoy: i think you could prolly post total shit for the next 2 years aaaaand like 192 days and you'll still be considered 'posting good' cause of your threads that'll never be seen thread
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Postby shamdonk » Wed Jun 20, 2007 10:52 am

Be glad your opponents refuse to fold; if they didn't, you just might go broke.


(9:00:09 PM) GodlikeRoy: i think you could prolly post total shit for the next 2 years aaaaand like 192 days and you'll still be considered 'posting good' cause of your threads that'll never be seen thread
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Postby Triple B » Wed Jun 20, 2007 11:28 am

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Postby doublepro » Thu Jun 21, 2007 9:39 am

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