Omaha Experts Help - Am I an Idiot?

by **JJSCOTT2** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 4:42 am

Unfortunately I left this table in frustration without bothering to grab the hand history so bear with me here. I'm not really an Omaha player per se, although my only MTT 1st place ever was in an O8 event, go figure. But it's these situations that really piss me off especially in PL/NL.

Playing a little $25 PL08 at 6:30 AM cuz I'm too tired to play Hold 'Em for actual money.

Get dealt [Ad]

So at this point I'm pretty happy, just make it double suited and I would have the "best hand", but I'll take what I can get.

I bet the pot in EP bringing it up to like $1.10 or something. Am I right in doing this? I figure I would like to play this against as few opponents as possible.

2 Players call.

Here's where it gets ugly.

Flop is......... [Ah]

It's checked to me, I bet the pot.....is this reasonable?

1 fold. Opponent 2 check-raises the pot limit. Ok, you've got a flush, I'm willing to accept that fact.

So I start counting ways for me to win this hand, I coun't up something like 22 outs to the nut low and 7 more to aces full or quads and I'm thinking to myself it would have just been easier to count cards that wouldn't help me and I would have come up with a much smaller number.

Here's where it gets uglier. I was so happy with my situation on the flop I don't know how I didn't end up just getting myself all-in, but I didn't, so then.........

The turn........ [Th]

Ughhh......1 of several.

Now, my opponent moves all in, costing me 15 to call, there is about as much in the pot. Do I make this call? I am certain of the fact that this guy has the nut flush, and the way it's going down it's looking like he's praying for me not to make a low. So I figure all my outs to the low are clean for half the pot, I doubt I'll be getting quartered or anything. And I still like my chances.....so I call.

The river........ [Jh]

Ughhh........1 of several minus one.

And I lose, end of story.

Opponent holds [Kh]

So basically, is it just me or are swings in Omaha like, ridiculous? It just seems like there's a lot of times where you just virtually have to get your money in....or am I wrong? Any thoughts on how bad I played this hand or anything like that?

by **JDLush** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 6:53 am

Dude, don't sweat that one. It will happen on occasion. You were right in raising preflop, right in betting hard on the flop, and calling was fine after he checkraised. More often than not you will get 1/2 that pot, and about 1 in 4 times you'll scoop it. You just got boned by the board. It happens.

Remember, even donkeys have to eat once in a while.

by **Felonius_Monk** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 12:59 pm

Yeah, you played close to perfect. The only (slight) error you made was not moving all in on the flop. You're favourite over a bare flush with top set plus the nut low draw, and if he has nothing to the low at all then you're a fairly significant favourite. Also, if he has a hand he might just be yanking your chain with (say, a middle flush that he decided to pull off a crazy bluff on) he might JUST fold. Also, if he has a weak flush he might fold a pair on the turn, and you don't want him to get away for free.

In omaha, in any spot where you know REGARDLESS what happens you're putting your money in on the next street, AND you have some sort of made hand, you should push all in. Here, if a pair falls on the turn, you're golden, if a low falls, you have low and a ten card draw to win high and scoop. If a high card falls (your opponent's only real safe card, other than perhaps a 2 or 3), you still have quarter of the deck to scoop on the turn plus another 15 or so outs for low, and so obviously have to call for such a small amount on the turn.

The fact you have to ask whether you should call on the turn is slightly worrying; folding there would be beyond abysmal, so you really should be able to answer that question there yourself! At this point, even if you ONLY have the set of aces, and no low, you should call for as much as about 40% of the pot bet (i.e. if there's 100 in the middle and he bets 40, you should call) because you have ten cards to win it on a scoop, with no low out. With the additional equity of having a low draw to make a probable half (or at least quarter) of the pot that last $15 is a fairly easy call. You can call a pot-sized raise on this turn, with 20-25% shot at scooping and probably around 35-45% equity on average against your opponent with a flush, depening on him holding low cards or not.

You also need to put in the amount of money each player has in the pot when you ask a question! I'm guessing here that there's about $30 in the pot by the turn when your opponent puts in the $15, but that's only a guess. You should make clear how much money the players have at the start of the hand, and/or the amount in the pot at each street. Omaha, and PLO8 especially, is a game that relies almost entirely on pot odds, which is dependent on stack and pot sizes, not just cards. Keep working on the mathematics of the game and you'll be winning very solidly before long!

In this hand you just got unlucky. Next time on that flop, do everything you can to get as much money in the pot as possible, especially if there's multi-way action.

Hope this helps! And welcome!

Monk
xxxxx