Massive Draws VS Massive Nits $2-$4NL FR

[kokomo44]

All the villans in these hands run with VPIP's within 10-14
and just grind out playing the nuts.
they are actually loosers because they are to tight.
My question is should i still play for stacks when i know
that my overs are not outs.

Against the regular $2-$4 player i would have no problem playing for stacks
but against these rocks im starting to think i should get away.
knowing that i have 0 fold equity against their range, is folding such bad play?



- $2/$4 - No Limit Hold'em - 1:34:44 ET - 2007/08/18
Seat 1: ($521)
Seat 2: ($591.50)
Seat 3: Villan ($418.60)
Seat 4: ($75.20)
Seat 5: ($178.60)
Seat 6: ($422.90)
Seat 7: kokomo ($599.10)
Seat 8: ($279.25)
Seat 9: ($186.60)
posts the small blind of $2
posts the big blind of $4
The button is in seat #7
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to kokomo [Ah Qh]
folds
folds
Villan calls $4
folds
folds
folds
kokomo raises to $18
folds
folds
villan calls $14
*** FLOP *** [8h Jh Qc]
villan checks
kokomo bets $24
villan raises to $114
kokomo ???



- $2/$4 - No Limit Hold'em - 4:50:09 ET - 2007/08/18
Seat 1: villan ($400)
Seat 2: ($1,014.60)
Seat 3: ($400)
Seat 4: ($201.90)
Seat 5: ($944.20)
Seat 6: ($594.95)
Seat 7: ($400)
Seat 8: ($506)
Seat 9: kokomo ($694.30)
posts the small blind of $2
kokomo posts the big blind of $4
The button is in seat #7
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to kokomo [Kh Ah]
Villan raises to $14
folds
calls $14
calls $14
folds
folds
folds
calls $12
kokomo has 15 seconds left to act
kokomo raises to $84
villan has 15 seconds left to act
villan calls $70
folds
has 15 seconds left to act
folds
folds
*** FLOP *** [9h Th Js]
kokomo has 15 seconds left to act
kokomo ????

- $2/$4 - No Limit Hold'em - 6:58:03 ET - 2007/08/21
Seat 1: ($497.70)
Seat 2: ($443.50)
Seat 3: ($478.80)
Seat 4: ($556)
Seat 6: ($863.60)
Seat 7: villan ($400)
Seat 8: kokomo ($799.50)
Seat 9: ($394)
posts the small blind of $2
posts the big blind of $4
The button is in seat #2
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to kokomo [Ac Qc]
folds
villan raises to $14
kokomo calls $14
folds
folds
villan 2 calls $14
folds
folds
*** FLOP *** [3c Th 5c]
villan bets $22
kokomo raises to $64
villan 2 folds
villan raises to $386, and is all in
kokomo has 15 seconds left to act
kokomo???


Think about these hands before you read my next post with the results.

[kokomo44]

Is it really worth the variance if i know im against a set or over pair.

I know that AK hand im priced in. but the others id like to hear your thoughts

- $2/$4 - No Limit Hold'em - 1:34:44 ET - 2007/08/18
Seat 1: ($521)
Seat 2: ($591.50)
Seat 3: Villan ($418.60)
Seat 4: ($75.20)
Seat 5: ($178.60)
Seat 6: ($422.90)
Seat 7: kokomo ($599.10)
Seat 8: ($279.25)
Seat 9: ($186.60)
posts the small blind of $2
posts the big blind of $4
The button is in seat #7
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to kokomo [Ah Qh]
folds
folds
Villan calls $4
folds
folds
folds
kokomo raises to $18
folds
folds
villan calls $14
*** FLOP *** [8h Jh Qc]
villan checks
kokomo bets $24
villan raises to $114
is sitting out
kokomo has 15 seconds left to act
kokomo raises to $581.10, and is all in
Villan calls $286.60, and is all in
kokomo shows [Ah Qh]
villan shows [Js Jd]
Uncalled bet of $180.50 returned to kokomo
*** TURN *** [8h Jh Qc]
*** RIVER *** [8h Jh Qc Jc]
kokomo shows two pair, Queens and Jacks
villan shows four of a kind, Jacks
villan wins the pot ($840.20) with four of a kind, Jacks
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $843.20 | Rake $3
Board: [8h Jh Qc Jc 7s]
Seat 1: didn't bet (folded)
Seat 2: didn't bet (folded)
Seat 3: villan showed [Js Jd] and won ($840.20) with four of a kind, Jacks
Seat 4: didn't bet (folded)
Seat 5: didn't bet (folded)
Seat 6: didn't bet (folded)
Seat 7: kokomo (button) showed [Ah Qh] and lost with two pair, Queens and Jacks
Seat 8: (small blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 9: (big blind) folded before the Flop



- $2/$4 - No Limit Hold'em - 4:50:09 ET - 2007/08/18
Seat 1: villan ($400)
Seat 2: ($1,014.60)
Seat 3: ($400)
Seat 4: ($201.90)
Seat 5: ($944.20)
Seat 6: ($594.95)
Seat 7: ($400)
Seat 8: ($506)
Seat 9: kokomo ($694.30)
posts the small blind of $2
kokomo posts the big blind of $4
The button is in seat #7
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to kokomo [Kh Ah]
Villan raises to $14
folds
calls $14
calls $14
folds
folds
folds
calls $12
kokomo has 15 seconds left to act
kokomo raises to $84
villan has 15 seconds left to act
villan calls $70
folds
has 15 seconds left to act
folds
folds
*** FLOP *** [9h Th Js]
kokomo has 15 seconds left to act
kokomo bets $204
villan raises to $316, and is all in
kokomo calls $112
villan shows [Qs Qh]
kokomo shows [Kh Ah]
*** TURN *** [9h Th Js]
*** RIVER *** [9h Th Js 8s]
villan shows a straight, Queen high
kokomo shows a pair of Tens
villan wins the pot ($839) with a straight, Queen high
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $842 | Rake $3
Board: [9h Th Js 8s Tc]
Seat 1: villan showed [Qs Qh] and won ($839) with a straight, Queen high
Seat 2: didn't bet (folded)
Seat 3: folded before the Flop
Seat 4: folded before the Flop
Seat 5: didn't bet (folded)
Seat 6: didn't bet (folded)
Seat 7: (button) didn't bet (folded)
Seat 8: (small blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 9: kokomo (big blind) showed [Kh Ah] and lost with a pair of Tens

- $2/$4 - No Limit Hold'em - 6:58:03 ET - 2007/08/21
Seat 1: ($497.70)
Seat 2: ($443.50)
Seat 3: ($478.80)
Seat 4: ($556)
Seat 6: ($863.60)
Seat 7: villan ($400)
Seat 8: kokomo ($799.50)
Seat 9: ($394)
posts the small blind of $2
posts the big blind of $4
The button is in seat #2
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to kokomo [Ac Qc]
folds
villan raises to $14
kokomo calls $14
folds
folds
villan 2 calls $14
folds
folds
*** FLOP *** [3c Th 5c]
villan bets $22
kokomo raises to $64
villan 2 folds
villan raises to $386, and is all in
kokomo has 15 seconds left to act
kokomo folds
Uncalled bet of $322 returned to villan
villan mucks
villan wins the pot ($173)
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $176 | Rake $3
Board: [3c Th 5c]
Seat 1: didn't bet (folded)
Seat 2: (button) folded on the Flop
Seat 3: (small blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 4: (big blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 6: didn't bet (folded)
Seat 7: villan collected ($173), mucked
Seat 8: kokomo folded on the Flop
Seat 9: didn't bet (folded)

[The Golden 1]

Hand 1: I'm stacking everytime.

Hand 2: I like a CR all in here. If he has AK then you're getting more money in, if he has a set it was going in anyway, if he has QQ or KK he may check behind fearing KK or AA.

Hand 3: If you're that sure that he's this nitty then I don't understand the flop raise after being led into (yes its a small bet but I mean if you put him squarely on a set he's pricing you in pretty well)

[kokomo44]

[paulee]

[The Golden 1]

[Triple B]

Hand 1: If you are pretty sure he has a set and you have no fold equity then I fold. The pot is too small to take a likely 30/70 situation. If it was a reraised pot then I would go with it.

Hand 2: Why reraise a nit with AK? As played the pot is too big and you have way too much equity against his holdings to ever fold this. He has pretty much his most likely holding here in QQ (and to make it worse he has the Qh) and you are still 47% to win.

Hand 3: Don't raise this flop unless you want to get it in. If you think its likely villain has a big hand that he won't fold (QQ+, set), then just call the flop. Also, when villain bets so small you should probably raise more than 3x as a rule.

[kokomo44]