Critique this limit hand! Bluff the river?

[growlers]

$4-8 1/2 kill.
I have in the BB. Two limpers, and a preflop LAGgy but reasonable postflop guy raises the button. I call, limpers call. 4-way pot.

Flop: (4 handed)


I check, limpers check, button bets, I call, one of the limpers (who is a passive calling station) calls.

Turn: (3 handed)


I bet out, limper calls, button calls.

River: (8.5 BB, three handed)


I ?????

Critique all streets please.

[redhouse]

I hate the turn lead, especially since its three handed. The fold equity of taking the lead is pretty low and its an expensive bluff if you run it all the way. With all the draws out there and a station involved you pretty much know you're going to get calls and you have no idea what they mean. That is whether they're draws or just weak one pair hands. You have a ton of outs so its not horrible equity wise if you get raised three way, but it does sting if you get raised HU. You also sacrifice the ability to check raise if the diamonds get there.

River - having got two callers, you're basically betting on both of them having whiffed on draws since they're not folding anything made in a large pot. Then again you can argue the odds make it worth a try... i just dont think itll work the 10+% of the time required to make it profitable, esp since you have some of the cards drawing hands would.

[antneye]

I am pretty much on board with Red here. You are not bluffing this river oop 3-way and getting away with it.

I dont like the pre-flop call or the turn bet either.

[growlers]

[antneye]

[growlers]

[bigwheell]

I will call here PF most of the time here. I would have in this hand.

I would have check called the turn and folded the river unimproved. I don't like the turn lead either as the flop sits in the limp/calling range of just about everyone that plays limit and I don't see how the turn lead it is going to get anyone off their hand...

I don't see the bluff working with this hand as the flop will hit most hands enough to give their owners enough perceived showdown value for them to fold.

Either of the hands you are drawing to could be second best hands at showdown, or you could be looking at a chop with another K, but with the turn card, I think it is strong enough to get to showdown as cheap as possible...

This leads us back to preflop, and maybe you should have folded preflop as the hand is just too marginal to see a flop even with 7.5-1

[Beavis68]

is check raising the flop horrible here? I may do that to clean up some outs.

[MTPaid]

[redhouse]

[growlers]

I call all day long here with most any two suited, any pair, any two broadway and any nongapped unsuited connectors in a live game with players that are easily exploitable. I wonder if those criteria are too loose, but folding K6s here is not going to happen (sorry, ant).

I think CRing the flop might be a good idea, increases my fold equity on later streets, although I wasn't in love with the hand until the second flush card came increasing my outs. You also have to worry about AK a little here after a preflop raise which of course would be a disaster.

I led the turn because I like to lead with big draws in general - because I feel like if I check/call and then hit and lead the river I won't get as many calls. I also don't like to have the image that I only lead with a made hand and only C/C with a draw. I like to mix things up here, and it is not a disaster if I get raised since I have so many outs. That would also make a bigger pot which makes for more river calls if I hit.

The river went check check check and I showed first, the CS mucked (so had a worse draw I guess) and then the PFR showed 99.

[antneye]

bah!!!!!!!!!!!

[Derf]

Growlers:

I agree with your preflop call. I have never met Antneye, but I bet he squeaks when he walks

I initially hated you turn bet...and I am not completely convinced that it good, b/c I don't think you have much if any fold equity. But I ran some math, and as long as you have 2 callers on the turn, you are probably not losing anything on that bet..and perhaps gaining a small bit. One key here is that you have the calling station between you and the aggressor so it is likley that you are ok even if the button raises..as it will still be 3 way. However, put the calling station on the other side of the preflop aggressor, and your turn bet is yucky.

And even still, if the calling station calls and the button folds to the turn bet...you are sad. A little bit of folding equity on the bet would help, but I don't see much on that board. I guess you are arguing that if there is a small cost associated with the bet on the turn, you make up for it with more calls when you hit on the river and/or you are now more unpredictable on future hands. So, I am not necessarily convinced, but I no longer view the turn bet as completely awful.

--Fred

[antneye]

[woody]

Preflop, is good enough to call a raise in the big blind.

On the turn, I would probably just check call, but I think that the turn lead is OK. You have as many as 15 outs, although some may be to a split pot, so as long as two people call you probably have enough pot equity to make the bet worthwhile, even if it gets reraised behind you. With the board as coordinated as it is, I don't think that a bet will fold all of your opponents. As it turned out since you didn't get raised, it probably didn't matter if you lead out or check called the result would be the same.

On the river, since the draw missed, I would check fold. With that board, I don't think that you can bet and get your opponents to fold the required percentage to make a bet worthwhile.