JJ overpair in 4bet pot (1/2NL 6max)

[NorthView]

UTG is a very aggro 19/16/4 TAG regarded as being a decent MSNLer at 2+2, and has only recently joined the table.

BetFred Poker 1.00/2.00, hand converted by the at

saw flop | saw showdown

Button ($349.50)
SB ($187.00)
BB ($69.95)
UTG UTG ($202.00)
UTG+1 ($200.00)
CO Hero ($515.30)

Preflop: Hero is in the CO with J J
UTG raises to 8.00, 1 fold, Hero raises to 27.00, 3 folds, UTG raises to 50.00, Hero calls 31.00.

Flop (119.00) 5 6 8
UTG moves all-in for 144.00

It's $144 to us in a $260 pot. What are we doing? Comments on preflop welcome too.

[JimmyJet]

I would fold.

We're assuming his 4 bet range OOP is fairly tight here, AK and prolly AA/KK. Do you think he'd shove AK on a bluff? I mean, his shove is an overbet but he could also assume your 3 bet range here is TT+ and AQ+ which is why he is shoving this flop, he may think you'll call with TT, JJ, QQ, and KK (if he has aces)

I'm not clever enough to give a bigger explanation but I'd def fold.

[JohnSmith]

Fold preflop after his raise to 50? Or is that too tight?

Flop I would fold

[gsdavid]

[T-Rod]

[Triple B]

[NorthView]

I'm pretty sure AK is in a very aggro UTG's range. I also think that maybe his push skews his range towards AK a little - a lot of players will bet 60ish there with AA/KK.

JJ has 46% equity against AA/KK/AK, and 40% against AA/KK/QQ/JJ/AK, so it looks like a straightforward call.

He had 99 (?) and I held.

Next time I won't be calling a 4 bet with JJ, though - I think it has to be push or fold preflop.

[Schuster]

[RedBarracuda]

I call this because that's about the best flop I could have imagined...

Another question.. decent TAGs will 3bet AQ, but will they 4bet it without shoving? I really don't know and am interested in your experiences..

[Notorious_JC]

[tommyhawk]

[Zuccala]

If u call PF u have to call flop/ Surely u didnt call to set (as the odds are not there) so u must have called because ur ahead. so u must call. HOWEVER, I would have folded PF.

[black_knight6]

You have 3 options here really...

1: you call his OOP 4bet when he's NEW to the table. If you do this, you have to call ANY non A/K/Q flop no matter what hoping he has 99-TT or AK/AQ. Since you called pf, this is a snap call.

2: you FOLD pf to his OOP 4bet when he's NEW to the table (I like this one best!).

3: you shove pf.

Seriously, you're not getting set odds pf, so you either think you're ahead or behind...if you think you're behind, FOLD...if you think you're ahead, SHOVE! This hand shouldn't have gotten to the flop given that: 1) you know he has a rep for being solid, 2) he's NEW to the table, and therefore 3) has no reason to be pulling a move on you.