Wowowowoowowowowow Worst Spot I've ever been in

[DoctorHandles]

[black_knight6]

[ChaseThis]

[DoctorHandles]

[DoctorHandles]

[iceman5]

[Xaston]

I think the fact that this pot is so multiway is very relevant.

The guy who we are pretty sure is a TAG calls a raise and leads into 3 people. I just don't see a TAG calling a raise from the BB here and then leading out the the intentions of folding to a raise. As such I don't really think raising is as great as everybody else does.

I mean, he has sets, straights, and big draws. I sincerely doubt he is doing this with 77.

Someone with his stats prolly doesn't call pre flop, usually, with all that many suited hands, but with two others calling before him it probably opens up his pre flop range a little. Even still, hands like J8 of clubs which he likely calls pre flop because of the other callers, probably isn't leading the flop.

I like a call on the flop because I think this guys range is pretty fucking strong and I sure don't mind letting other people in with smaller clubs or something.

On the turn a board pairing flush hit and he's still leading, so he's prolly strong. Strong could include 7c8c though which we beat. And he definitely could/should still be betting his straights. Also it's not a particularly big bet, but it certainly sets him up nicely for a river shove so it still shows a decent amount of strength.

I would probably call again and call or value bet a brick river.

[iceman5]

I think alot of 16 / 12 TAGs would play [9s] exactly like this. They arent going to call a raise but that doesnt mean you shouldnt raise anyway.

[Xaston]

[Triple B]

I agree his range is pretty strong so we can just call the flop here but I would not do so for the reason of allowing lower clubs to come along (since this will be rare). If that is a side benefit, then so be it.

I agree with Iceman that villain can lead 99 on this flop and will probably fold to a raise (which is good for us). I also can dig Xaston's turn line of just calling because a raise on this turn is going to look pretty strong. Just keep in mind that we are committing our stack by calling on this turn so the money is going in by calling or raising (so we obviously do whatever we think gets us the best value from what we beat)

[excession]

The bet sizing does worry me a bit - you would expect him to bet more with overs or a weak made flush so a weak lead here may be more likely to be air or a monster - but I think you are being wise after the event. This is the $50's - you have to assume donkage for max value until they prove you otherwise
I saw a guy with a ton of hands at iPoker $100's lead his baby flush into 3 players for 1/4 pot on a mono flop. I had the AA with the right ace OTB and pushed over (reasoning that he couldn't be on a made flush/set as his lead was so weak). I was wrong and he was a donkey...at the $50's trying to make a bet sizing read that precise with no history on the player is just FRS (fancy read syndrome) - and I thknk that holds good even if you were right this time.

As the major part of his range that you are beating and want to extract value from is overs and smaller flushes (and perhaps an random Q or J clubs) and so many scare cards can come on the turn to scare off that range - I think a smallish raise on the turn is best..

[T-Rod]

[iceman5]

We hope he has [9h] and is CALLING the raise. If he has a flush he is calling the raise. If hes a donk he may call the raise with lots of hands.

Hes probably not going to call the raise because I doubt his hand is strong and a 16 / 12 guy should be at least a decent player, but if hes a decent player, hes most likely not betting the river with a weak hand either.

If he has a boat...oh well. Most people dont fire out with a set on the flop so he shouldnt have one too often.

I do flat call here sometimes because alot of people will put you on one club and bet the river again with a marginal hand, so I dont think calling is bad, I just prefer a raise most times because the board has too many cards coordinated cards.

[GodlikeRoy]

[RedBarracuda]