Yet again, want some advice - PLO 25 - Part 1

[briachek]

Hand 1

***** Hand History for Game 2518776459 *****
jlhenry has left the table.
0/0 Omaha Game Table (PL) - Thu Aug 11 20:27:20 EDT 2005
Table Table 36761 (Real Money) -- Seat 2 is the button
Total number of players : 8
Seat 1: copperkey ( $18.30)
Seat 2: rrod43 ( $24.20)
Seat 3: twoball2 ( $14.62)
Seat 4: HOFFERNATOR9 ( $33.75)
Seat 6: chesscdg ( $5.65)
Seat 7: HansKenny ( $93.58)
Seat 8: briachek ( $44.80)
Seat 9: blackjackz ( $11.50)
twoball2 posts small blind (0.10)
HOFFERNATOR9 posts big blind (0.25)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to briachek [ 2c, 9h, Qd, Qh ]
chesscdg folds.
HansKenny calls (0.25)
briachek calls (0.25)
blackjackz calls (0.25)
copperkey calls (0.25)
rrod43 calls (0.25)
twoball2 calls (0.15)
HOFFERNATOR9 checks.
** Dealing Flop ** : [ Ah, 8h, 5h ]
twoball2 checks.
HOFFERNATOR9 checks.
HansKenny checks.
briachek bets (1.75)
blackjackz folds.
copperkey folds.
rrod43 folds.
twoball2 folds.
HOFFERNATOR9 folds.
HansKenny calls (1.75)
** Dealing Turn ** : [ 7d ]
HansKenny checks.
briachek bets (5)
HansKenny calls (5)
** Dealing River ** : [ 2d ]
HansKenny bets (14.50)
twoball2: raise//////////////////////////////
briachek folds.
** Summary **
Main Pot: $29 | Rake: $0.75
Board: [ Ah 8h 5h 7d 2d ]

Am I too weak tight here? This looks suspiciously like the nut flush. I bet the turn and was 50/50 on betting the river if checked to but this looked like he didn't want me to check behind. Good fold?

Hand 2

***** Hand History for Game 2518726898 *****
0/0 Omaha Game Table (PL) - Thu Aug 11 20:18:37 EDT 2005
Table Table 37545 (Real Money) -- Seat 3 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 1: mantas670 ( $4.90)
Seat 2: chesscdg ( $5.75)
Seat 3: beefaroni ( $24.25)
Seat 4: jnx99 ( $36.10)
Seat 5: crazywudsl ( $24.75)
Seat 6: briachek ( $25)
Seat 7: djlucksergio ( $89.15)
Seat 8: Cathrone ( $0)
Seat 10: ragnorak ( $11.35)
jnx99 posts small blind (0.10)
briachek posts big blind (0.25)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to briachek [ Jh, Jc, 3h, Td ]
Cathrone: nh
Cathrone: js full of 3s here
djlucksergio calls (0.25)
ragnorak folds.
mantas670 folds.
chesscdg folds.
beefaroni folds.
jnx99 calls (0.15)
briachek checks.
** Dealing Flop ** : [ 5c, 2d, 7h ]
jnx99 checks.
briachek checks.
djlucksergio checks.
** Dealing Turn ** : [ Js ]
jnx99 bets (0.50)
briachek raises (2.25) to 2.25
djlucksergio folds.
jnx99 calls (1.75)
** Dealing River ** : [ Ts ]
jnx99 bets (5)
briachek folds.
** Summary **
Main Pot: $10 | Rake: $0.25
Board: [ 5c 2d 7h Js Ts ]

Again, weak tight on the river? What else would he just bet like that but 9T?

Hand 3

***** Hand History for Game 2518690347 *****
0/0 Omaha Game Table (PL) - Thu Aug 11 20:12:09 EDT 2005
Table Table 37092 (Real Money) -- Seat 1 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: djlucksergio ( $37.10)
Seat 2: archmedes ( $24.50)
Seat 3: sangrefrio ( $23.15)
Seat 4: Robert101 ( $24.50)
Seat 5: SchnukeSD ( $70.47)
Seat 6: sigmund99 ( $42.18)
Seat 7: DaaWarsaw ( $23.05)
Seat 8: Bassekingen ( $18.64)
Seat 9: Ponyboy888 ( $12.32)
Seat 10: briachek ( $25)
archmedes posts small blind (0.10)
sangrefrio posts big blind (0.25)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to briachek [ As, 8h, 8c, Ah ]
Robert101 folds.
SchnukeSD calls (0.25)
sigmund99 folds.
DaaWarsaw folds.
Bassekingen folds.
Ponyboy888 calls (0.25)
briachek calls (0.25)
djlucksergio folds.
archmedes calls (0.15)
sangrefrio checks.
** Dealing Flop ** : [ Th, Kd, Qh ]
archmedes checks.
sangrefrio checks.
SchnukeSD checks.
Ponyboy888 checks.
briachek bets (1.25)
archmedes folds.
sangrefrio folds.
SchnukeSD calls (1.25)
Ponyboy888 folds.
** Dealing Turn ** : [ 3d ]
SchnukeSD checks.
briachek checks.
** Dealing River ** : [ Kh ]
SchnukeSD checks.
briachek checks.
** Summary **
Main Pot: $3.60 | Rake: $0.15
Board: [ Th Kd Qh 3d Kh ]
SchnukeSD balance $68.97, lost $1.50 [ 9c Ts 7c Qd ] [ two pairs, kings and queens -- Kd,Kh,Qd,Qh,Ts ]
briachek balance $27.10, bet $1.50, collected $3.60, net +$2.10 [ As 8h 8c Ah ] [ a flush, ace high -- Ah,Kh,Qh,Th,8h ]

Value bet the river?

Hand 4

***** Hand History for Game 2518432860 *****
0/0 Omaha Game Table (PL) - Thu Aug 11 19:25:18 EDT 2005
Table Table 36722 (Real Money) -- Seat 9 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: NoCashKid ( $18.15)
Seat 2: Crwth ( $25)
Seat 3: SABERTUUTH ( $16.40)
Seat 4: jrod133 ( $19)
Seat 5: DaaWarsaw ( $37.50)
Seat 6: daheights ( $11.85)
Seat 7: saltamore ( $70.65)
Seat 8: tehjohnny ( $9.95)
Seat 9: R100003 ( $36.40)
Seat 10: briachek ( $24.75)
briachek posts small blind (0.10)
NoCashKid posts big blind (0.25)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to briachek [ Js, Qd, Tc, 8d ]
SABERTUUTH calls (0.25)
jrod133 calls (0.25)
DaaWarsaw folds.
daheights folds.
saltamore folds.
R100003 calls (0.25)
briachek calls (0.15)
NoCashKid checks.
** Dealing Flop ** : [ 8c, 6d, 8h ]
briachek bets (1.25)
NoCashKid folds.
SABERTUUTH folds.
jrod133 raises (5) to 5
R100003 folds.
briachek folds.
** Summary **
Main Pot: $7.35 | Rake: $0.15
Board: [ 8c 6d 8h ]

Weak tight or just the information I wanted?

I see a pattern with these posts. Weak tight keep on showing up.

[Kuso]

As I suppose I am weak-tight, too, I am not sure it is appropriate for me to comment, but...

Hand 1
Per the other thread that discusses this... do you think the guy would bet the pot with less than the nut flush more than 1/3 of the time? If yes, then call. I wouldn't call here unless I had a read on the player that suggests he's a donk or he's a bluffer (there's no shortage of these at party).

Hand 2
again, i think the problems come before the river. i would pot it on the flop just for fold equity alone -- that flop is only good to a low wrap. the fact that the raise primes the pot if i hit my set is a bonus. of course, when it hit on the turn, that pot bet would have some teeth, and you could take the pot down there. hindsight is 20/20, but i like to do this regularly. anyway, it gets back to the 1/3 rule on the river... do you think you have him beat more than 1/3 of the time?

another idea... what about a small raise (to 2x or 3x BB) pre-flop so that you have a bigger pot to work with on the flop if you hit your set? jacks might be a bit marginal, but it's at least worth a thought. it also gives you some bluffing ammo and/or will buy you a free card.

Hand 3
If he came back at you and reraised, how would you feel about calling? If you are OK with it, then value bet, if not, then you did the right thing. At least that's my rule of thumb. As the pot is quite small, i think i would value bet and call any raise.

Hand 4
I don't really understand this fold. Even if you assume he has 66 or 68 for the boat, you still have nine or ten outs to felt him. I would at least call and look at the next card. Did you have a read on this guy?

[Kuso]

[briachek]

[Kuso]

I think PTO with PAhud or GT+ would pay for itself in these marginal situation. You can get your money back with two or three good raises, calls, or folds.

In PLO8, I am much more confident when calling a losing aggressive donk, and I have often saved myself a lot of money by not calling a big winner who showed the goods to a less-informed caller (who probably didn't have PTO).

From a psychological perspective, this may be selective reinforcement on my part, but I'm OK with that. I might actually do a proper test at some point on using PTO stats for marginal calls.

[Hofstra]

1) A bad player might slowplay his nutflush, and I don't see what hand a good player can have here... Unless he is a maniac who often bluffs big and irrationally on the river I fold.

2) I play flop and turn the same and call the river bet. If he has the straight so be it, but I think he is a donk with 77. Apart from the fact that you'll be ahead enough times to make the call EV+, it is also good to know what kind of hand this player plays like this.
Unlike Kuso, I wouldn't bet the flop here, since there are two opponents who probably won't both fold and since most turn cards will force you to give up.

3) Fine. He might very well have a straight on the flop but wants to wait for a safe turn card before getting aggressive. Turns out he had garbage, but against most players I play this carefully.

4) Fine. Alternative would be to check-call the flop and see what develops on the turn. Then if you don't fill up, check-fold.

[Kuso]

Hand 4
I like the check-call idea of Hofstra's a lot. Given your position, you might be able to get the other 8 to do the betting for you. Not only that, I think that you will have a fair bit of deception value if you fill up on the turn.

If the other 8 isn't out there, I think the upside potential is limited in this hand anyway.

[edited for spelling]

[Felonius_Monk]

Hand 1: Opponent specific. If you believed this guy had half a clue, you're perhaps correct to lay down. This would be an awfully odd place to spring a bluff out of nowhere, with you representing a big hand on the last two streets. Whether he is more than 2/3 likely to have the nut flush or not is a different matter. If he has shown any semi-goony tendencies then I think you might think about calling.

Hand 2: Similar answer to hand 1 really. Would be an odd spot for him to spring a bluff, but at PLO25 you're possibly getting the 1/3 odds you need to call against the average $25 opponent. Your read seems pretty accurate though, his play looks like a draw and that card makes one of the most obvious draws out there. Against anyone decent and straightforward I think folding is best.

Hand 3:
I don't bet that flop because it's only a draw and you've got to be scared of a check-raise (or pumping the pot against someone who likely has a set). I definitely check the river too, his passive play suggests a drawing hand or perhaps a non-nut straight, so he's unlikely to be calling with a weaker hand (J9 or low flush) but might just be laying a trap with a boat. Happy to showdown here.

Hand 4:
I actually take a call here often because if one of my 9 outs hits he'll give up his stack, although with him starting the hand a little short of a full one it's a lot closer. There's $7.35 in the pot plus $13.50-odd in his stack if you hit the turn for a $3.50 investment; you hit one time in 5 or so (depending on what cards this guy has) for $21 profit it's nicely +EV, even discounting the number of times he has one of your outs covered in his hand or redraws you on the river to win it.

If he has a deeper stack it's a much more attractive call.