couple PLO25 hands

[Stl10202]

Well after taking a break I am back and playing PLO and doing great. I also just finished reading Berman's section on PLO in SS2 and have a few more viewpoints on how to bet certain types of hands. A couple hands that I was wondering if I played correctly or not that I would like to run by you guys. The names of the fish have been changed to protect their stack until I get all their money, or the new term now I have been reading : "stacked"

0/0 Omaha Game Table (PL) - Mon Aug 15 01:51:42 EDT 2005
Table Table 37092 (Real Money) -- Seat 2 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 1: mrc547 ( $20.80)
Seat 2: Kidindiana ( $24.25)
Seat 3: btitwzsooted ( $29.15)
Seat 4: in__training ( $28.70)
Seat 5: bobby11xx ( $24.75)
Seat 7: tomtums ( $59.04)
Seat 8: pocketwilds2 ( $6.70)
Seat 9: ScuzzyBeard ( $48.85)
Seat 10: webmonarch16 ( $33.21)
btitwzsooted posts small blind (0.10)
in__training posts big blind (0.25)

** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to in__training [ Qh, As, Js, Tc ]
bobby11xx folds.
tomtums folds.
pocketwilds2 calls (0.25)
ScuzzyBeard calls (0.25)
webmonarch16 folds.
mrc547 calls (0.25)
Kidindiana folds.
btitwzsooted calls (0.15)
in__training checks.

** Dealing Flop ** : [ Qd, Ks, 2s ]
btitwzsooted bets (1.25)
in__training raises (4) to 4
pocketwilds2 folds.
ScuzzyBeard folds.
mrc547 folds.
btitwzsooted folds.
** Summary **
Main Pot: $6.35 | Rake: $0.15
Board: [ Qd Ks 2s ]

With such a nice draw I was hoping to get a big pot going here. However, I forgot my image is "if I am in the blinds and I bet I have a good hand." I immediately regret raising as soon as I did it but I was still on a draw that needed to complete.

***** Hand History for Game 2538291334 *****
$25 PL Omaha - Monday, August 15, 03:29:49 EDT 2005
Table Table 36658 (Real Money)
Seat 5 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: Cashplays ( $14.30 )
Seat 2: easystreet21 ( $21.02 )
Seat 3: TeamGuy ( $33.54 )
Seat 4: pocketwilds2 ( $16.10 )
Seat 5: bill265 ( $34.55 )
Seat 8: Mitrichor ( $34.38 )
Seat 9: Ludvard ( $30.10 )
Seat 6: in__training ( $24.15 )
Seat 7: BB ( $22.75 )
Seat 10: modemmy7 ( $12.75 )
in__training posts small blind [$0.10].
BB posts big blind [$0.25].
** Dealing down cards **

Dealt to in__training [ Ks Jc 9h Th ]
Mitrichor folds.
Ludvard folds.
modemmy7 folds.
Cashplays calls [$0.25].
easystreet21 folds.
TeamGuy calls [$0.25].
pocketwilds2 folds.
bill265 calls [$0.25].
in__training calls [$0.15].
BB raises [$1.25].
Cashplays calls [$1.25].
TeamGuy calls [$1.25].
bill265 folds.
in__training calls [$1.25].

** Dealing Flop ** [ 7s, 9d, Kd ]
in__training bets [$5.95].
BB raises [$11.90].
Cashplays folds.
TeamGuy folds.
in__training is all-In.
BB is all-In.
** Dealing Turn ** [ 4s ]
** Dealing River ** [ Ac ]
BB shows [ Qs, Jh, Kh, Tc ] a pair of kings.
in__training shows [ Ks, Jc, 9h, Th ] two pairs, kings and nines.
in__training wins $1.40 from side pot #1 with two pairs, kings and nines.
in__training wins $46.35 from the main pot with two pairs, kings and nines.

BB is a semi loose raiser but overplays his hands a lot. I read in SS2 that calling a PF raise and then leading out on the flop with 2 pair is very profitable. Well low and behold a chance to try out my newly acquirred knowledge.

[Kuso]

Hand 1
As you are drawing to the nut straight and the nut flush, one option is to call and let him bet into you again on the turn. Of course, if the flush hits, you may not get any more action, so a reraise definitely seems like another good option. Maybe $2 or min reraising would encourage a call?

Hand 2
I really hate jamming a reraise with two pair, so I salute you for having the guts to push here. Trips and multiple redraws just seems to make it a weak hand to me.

In what way is the SS2 advice "profitable"? Are they implying that you can take the pot down on the flop, or do they mean that you should be willing to put all your chips in the middle if you get the chance in this scenario?

I'll be interested to hear what others have to say.

[briachek]

Kuso, in hand 2, he had a double gutshot too, not just 2 pair.

[Kuso]

[Kuso]

fwiw, twodimes #s


pokenum -o ks jc 9h th - qs jh kh tc -- 7s 9d kd
Omaha Hi: 820 enumerated boards containing 7s Kd 9d
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
Ks Jc Th 9h 452 55.12 143 17.44 225 27.44 0.688
Qs Tc Kh Jh 143 17.44 452 55.12 225 27.44 0.312

[Hofstra]

1) Very dependent on table texture. If you think that you can suck people in with weaker draws than you then just call. If the SB has a small set or top two you might get paid if your less obvious draw (the straight) hits. Surely you want to get as much money in the pot as possible, but if you raise here I think you can only expect to get action from a set.

2) Well, there really are two separate questions here. First, do you want to get all the money in here? Second, how do you want to do it? Even if I knew for sure my opponent has aces, I'd rather steal the pot from him than go all in; my two pair can get counterfeited and I might be up against a baby flush draw. If the raiser is loose then you can't be sure about what he has. However, raising from the BB shows strength, meaning that he has at least a coordinated hand. That could mean a lot, but it probably means that if you get action then he has either a strong draw or a reasonable made hand...

As for betting out, I don't know. What do you do if you get called in one or two places? Many turn cards can put you in a tough spot. If I thought the chance that I was a favourite over the BB were good (and I'd need a pretty strong read for that), I would probably check, let the BB bet, see if the others fold and then checkraise the max.

Top two CAN be a great hand against a raiser, but in this spot I'm not overly excited about it, especially since this kind of play will create insane variance, even if you have a good read like you did.

Pieter

[Stl10202]

[Felonius_Monk]

[Stl10202]

Sorry about the number thing. I am usually anal enough to pick up on that type of stuff.

As far as betting 2 pair, I hardly ever don't take 2 pair very far but the conditions here were too good. He raised PF which tells me either AAxx or a wrap possibly suited. I was taking a chance betting into him but if anyone else wouldv'e been involved I wouldv'e thrown it away at the first sign of a scare card. I also made it bc I had a str draw to go along with. I got exactly what I wanted here by him raising so I could go heads up.

Let me try to clear the betting two pair thing up a little and explain what Berman says in SS2. If you have it you can turn to page 447. He actually talks specifically about top and bottom pair here but it pertains to the lesson.

"I rarely raise with aces, but I have been known to make exceptions to my rule. In a side game that my friends and I played during a recent WPT event, somebody raised to $8,000, and Chip Reese called." Blah blah, "I raised to 28,000 and Chip called my raise. The flop came KJ8 and Chip flopped Jacks and 8s and moved in. Had I not reraised before the flop, Chip would not have called after the flop with just Js and 8s. But he knew for a fact I had AAxx. There was a slim chance I had a hand like AKKQ and with a K on board he was taking a little risk. But the point is his 2 pair became a very big hand exactly because he could put me on AAxx. And that's why it's usually best not to raise with AAxx in Omaha."

Now I would not make this play all the time as I know 2 pair is extremely vulnerable but the conditions were too perfect to pass up.

On a side note, if anyone has read the section would you mind explaining the killer cards chart.

[Felonius_Monk]

Assuming someone has precisely AA because they raised preflop is not always a good read, but I agree that it's helpful. More so, someone raising preflop almost always has big cards (why I sometimes raise 5678 and the like against good opponents), so you can semi-bluff a preflop raiser off a low flop.

Example: Yesterday I held KK65ds and raised maximum PF from LP (I'm starting to try to be more aggressive preflop on tighter tables). I got a couple of callers. Flop came 842 rainbow. Two callers checked, I bet pot. One guy raised me. However, I felt he might be making a move on me of the "he must have a high-orientated hand so I'll bluff him out of it" type. Really nice move but I felt (with 8 clean outs anyhow) I could risk it, as only a set was badly beating me (I had odds to go to the felt by the river against two pair or any sort of wrap, as I only had another small bet on top of the call); so I moved all in. My read was either that he had a set of 8s (against which I'm hardly crushed and would've nearly had odds to make the river anyhow), or some sort of wrap-type hand, maybe with 2 pair, or perhaps even a hand like 8J9T which has lots of outs on a semi-bluff, with a significant possibility of him simply making a move with a hand that I might even be favourite against. He had QQxx and called off the last $15 or so and I stacked a nice pot. But, his play was a good one nonetheless; if I hadn't had the 8 out draw to go with my (possibly winning) high pair I would've been forced to fold. In retrospect my play was probably (at best) marginal anyway, but it worked out. Sometimes you don't need a monster to win in PLO.

[Stl10202]

[Felonius_Monk]