Turn Play

[Bob314]

I apologize in advance for the sketchy details.

I'm playing $100 max on Bodog (I usually play $100 max, the $200 hands I posted earlier I was playing because the $100 tables sucked right then). I have a full stack.

I check J-4o in my BB and the flop comes J-7-4 with 2 diamonds. There were a number of limpers in preflop, so I think we were 5 handed with the blinds and 3 limpers. SB checks, I check, and it checks around to the button, who bets $6.50, which is about the size of the pot. SB folds and I make it $24 to go. Folds back around to the button, who calls. The pot is now a little over $50 and an offsuit 3 comes down and the action is on me. My opponent has $63 left and I have him covered, but not by much. What would you do here? The board is really ragedy but any bet I make pot commits my opponent if he wants to stay in and if he does call or raise I think I'm pot commited to a call. I decided to put my opponent all in.

[iceman5]

I see alot of people do that, but Im not sure why. Most likely he has AJ or KJ. He has only 3 outs. Why blow him off his hand. Hes like 8-1 against hitting his kicker. Why not make a bet he can call. I would bet half pot and hope he calls or raises.

If you put him all in youre making it easy for him to fold AJ or KJ. A good player will never call that bet w/o a set. He might call it with [Jd] if the jack was the card that wasnt a diamond, but other than that youre giving him an easy out.

Edit...he actually has 9 outs if he has AJ or KJ because he wins with a 4, 3 or hits his kicker. Still its about 4-1 against. I think 1/2 to 2/3 pot is still good.

[Rhound50]

[iceman5]

[Bob314]

If I put him on a flush draw shouldn't I bet 2/3 or 3/4 the pot? If I just bet half the pot then he is getting 3-1 on his money, which, while not correct, is a thin enough call that if he thinks he will get the rest of my chips if he hits (which he might considering the fact that I'll have to call any river bet) the implied odds will make it right for him to call.

Results ended up being that I put him all in and he called with a set of 7s and no jack hit the river. I don't really think I could get away from this one =/.

To get a little hypothetical, say *I* lead out for $5 or $6 on the flop and the button comes over the top making it $20 or so to go. Should I fold here with TP/BP? Wouldn't somebody make this raise with something like TPTK or possibly K-J so maybe call and then plan a check-raise on the turn?

[Rhound50]

2 pair is a tough hand to play it is just strong enough to win you a big pot and just weak enough to lose you a big one vs a set and not have very many outs to win. I would have trouble getting away from this is a shallow game.

[Danhdan]

What about leading out here? If you hadn't checkraised here making the pot very large on the turn, but rather bet out from the BB, then you might have gotten some information if he had raised you here. It's possible to believe anything from the button on the limping board, but if you had just tried to play it for a smaller pot, I don't think you would of had so much trouble making a decision on the turn...assuming he probably raises you here. If raised, and with any read on this opponent, you might have been able to lay down this hand having a smaller pot...I really don't like playing my whole stack on the turn here w/ top and middle pair after four limpers who could of had anything....and I doubt he had you on 56 for the straight making the all in call of his very easy to make...although any bet that was smaller probably would have led you to calling an all in bet too...

I'm a big fan of a small pot when I am facing a bunch of limpers, and trying to take it down early, even if I do flop two pair...I don't like the uncertainty of not have top two or better, and like to put my money in when I am a sure favorite or as close to one as I am going to be...the calldown of your checkraise must have assured you of his willingness of playing this hand through to it's conclusion because of the $24 he called to stay in a $13 pot...obviously he has a monster draw or a monster hand...and I might just put him on that set or the AJ of diamonds...

I guess I am also a big fan of determining what my opponents have early before I put my money in...taking the lead in the hand until it is ripped from my cold, broke hands...