Bad play?

[Sunbob]

Feedback please. When i made the call I thought it was a good gamble. When I lost I figured I was an idiot. Now I'm not sure. What do you think? Opponent was new to table so I had no read on him.

Here is the hand:
Ultimate Bet No-Limit Hold'em, $.25 BB (9 handed)

UTG ($22.05)
Hero ($27.40)
MP1 ($9.75)
MP2 ($46.30)
MP3 ($17)
CO ($7.60)
Button ($25.95)
SB ($16)
BB ($24.40)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with , .
UTG folds, Hero raises to $0.5, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO folds, Button folds, SB folds, BB calls $0.25.

Flop: ($1.10) , , (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $1, BB raises to $4, Hero raises to $13.1, BB raises to $16.1, Hero calls $0.

Turn: ($30.30) (2 players)

River: ($30.30) (2 players)

Final Pot: $30.30

Results in white below:
BB has 8c Jd (two pair, jacks and nines).
Hero has Qc Kc (one pair, nines).
Outcome: BB wins $30.30.

[kennyg]

Couple of points here...

1. KQ suited or offsuit is trash, espeically from an early position like UTG+1. You will be dominated very often, and anytime you get action when you hold your high pair, you are probably losing. I believe KQ is an outright fold in this position. KQ on the cutoff seat or the button in an unraised pot, is ok...but remember it's a danger hand.

2. The reraise wasn't a horrible play. You were representing AA and sadly he had you beat. When he reraised another $16....well I'm trying to figure out the odds but the hand converter has me confused when it says you called "$0" Can someone with better math skills give us a clue here?You have 12 outs with 2 cards to come...it pretty much is an automatic call unless the bet is monster.

[Sunbob]

Good catch - I didn't see that the converter had the final pot wrong when I posted. I had him covered at the start of the hand so my call was for $16.10. The final pot was actually $48.90.

[Rhound50]

Sunbob,

This really is not a horrible play at all. You have 13 outs possibly more, worst case here is being up against a set in which case you are a 2:1 dog, and this is the worst case. If he has an ove pair you are 50/50. In your case you were somewhere in the middle 43/57 dog, but you are still getting both fold equity and some of the weak players at the $25 party tables may be making this same play with AJ or KJ. In the case of AJ you are actually ahead in the hand 60/40.

On the other issue KennyG brought up he is very much correct. KQ is a very dangerous hand and definaly not a hand I would raise with in early position, because that will often draw a call from someone playing AK or AQ and if you hit your card you are going to be in trouble. I also really don't like the one unit preflop raise, it accomplises nothing, you don;t limit the field you play against if you are playin a big pair and if you are playing something like a middle PP you are putting more money into a pot that you are going to have to fold more than you are going to be able to play.

[briachek]

also, was there a specific reason for the min raise utg? I would say you just fold this hand from the start, but if you raise, you should make a raise to at least $1 but that would normally lead to some dominated situations. Limping wouldn't be horrible on a very passive table but this just asks for trouble in NL.

I would say the a call of his raise on the flop would be marginal but a reraise is gonna end in an all in 99% of the time on the turn. These are the types of situations best handled by either folding preflop or making a larger raise to force J8 off to fold preflop.

[Bob314]

[iceman5]

Dont even min raise preflop again. I HATE THAT PLAY.

I have still yet to have anyone give me a valid reason for it with any hand.

[Felonius_Monk]

Min raising is sick and wrong, period. I agree 100% that it's next to worthless.

[Sunbob]

Okay, okay. With my right hand on "Super System" - I solemnly swear to never again minimum raise.

You guys are right, of course, and thank you all for the feedback. That is why I posted this hand. I knew I had messed up royally but needed help in really figuring out where I went wrong. KQ (suited or not) from early position (or any position for that matter) is not a play i should be making and after that I just made it worse.

It was an expensive lesson - we will see how well I learned it.

Thanks again