4 hands from plo25

[Stl10202]

HAND 1
***** Hand History for Game 2632519581 *****
0/0 Omaha Game Table (PL) - Wed Aug 31 23:36:55 EDT 2005
Table Table 37264 (Real Money) -- Seat 10 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: in__training ( $39.30)
Seat 2: corycasselma ( $53.62)
Seat 3: Poker_face66 ( $25.85)
Seat 4: FireFox_ ( $23.60)
Seat 5: Blue2007 ( $31.15)
Seat 6: I11eagle ( $21.25)
Seat 7: Smallguy2 ( $24.75)
Seat 8: Horsechoker9 ( $30.05)
Seat 9: sangrefrio ( $24.73)
Seat 10: cta29 ( $3.80)
in__training posts small blind (0.10)
corycasselma posts big blind (0.25)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to in__training [ Ah, Jh, 2c, Ad ]
Poker_face66 folds.
FireFox_ folds.
Blue2007 folds.
I11eagle folds.
Smallguy2 raises (0.85) to 0.85
Horsechoker9 folds.
sangrefrio folds.
cta29 folds.
in__training calls (0.75)
corycasselma calls (0.60)

** Dealing Flop ** : [ 9s, 9h, Jd ]
in__training checks.
corycasselma checks.
Smallguy2 bets (0.75)
in__training raises (3) to 3
corycasselma folds.
Smallguy2 calls (2.25)

** Dealing Turn ** : [ Js ]
in__training bets (4)
Smallguy2 calls (4)

** Dealing River ** : [ Qd ]
in__training bets (7)
Smallguy2 folds.
** Summary **
Main Pot: $22.75 | Rake: $0.80
Board: [ 9s 9h Jd Js Qd ]
in__training balance $47.20, bet $14.85, collected $22.75, net +$7.90

Smallguy raises more hands than usual but not a lot so I decided to just call. This was a dream flop and a dream weak bet by him on the flop. I only raised it to 3 and not pot because I wanted to make it look like I had a 9 and wanted to be called. Low and behold, in case he had a 9 I am saved by a J on the turn. Agree with the flop play?

Hand 2
***** Hand History for Game 2632635254 *****
0/0 Omaha Game Table (PL) - Wed Aug 31 23:54:36 EDT 2005
Table Table 36548 (Real Money) -- Seat 2 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 2: sangrefrio ( $20.90)
Seat 3: in__training ( $40.55)
Seat 4: FireFox_ ( $36.75)
Seat 5: kronoskeeper ( $17)
Seat 6: temple20147 ( $36.93)
Seat 7: marksummers1 ( $26.85)
Seat 8: wyogold ( $45.67)
Seat 9: Varnai ( $9.75)
Seat 10: Horsechoker9 ( $24.65)
in__training posts small blind (0.10)
FireFox_ posts big blind (0.25)
kronoskeeper posts big blind (0.25)
** Dealing down cards **

Dealt to in__training [ Jh, Qd, Ts, As ]
kronoskeeper checks.
temple20147 calls (0.25)
marksummers1 folds.
wyogold calls (0.25)
Varnai raises (0.50) to 0.50
Horsechoker9 folds.
sangrefrio folds.
in__training calls (0.40)
FireFox_ raises (2.50) to 2.75
kronoskeeper folds.
temple20147 calls (2.50)
wyogold folds.
Varnai calls (2.25)
in__training calls (2.25)

** Dealing Flop ** : [ Td, 4s, Ac ]
in__training bets (10.95)
FireFox_ calls (10.95)
temple20147 calls (10.95)
Varnai folds.

** Dealing Turn ** : [ 4c ]
in__training bets (10)
FireFox_ folds.
temple20147 raises (20) to 20

WHAT'S YOUR MOVE? You have 16 left he has 3.

First off, some of you may think the PF call was a bit loose but FireFox raises with a lot of hands. temple's VP is 95 so he could've had a 4 for trips. I'll post the results later.

HAND 3

***** Hand History for Game 2632279852 *****
$25 PL Omaha - Wednesday, August 31, 23:01:29 EDT 2005
Table Table 36548 (Real Money)
Seat 9 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: OzMaNz69 ( $39.10 )
Seat 2: Miggz86 ( $13.05 )
Seat 3: in__training ( $24.75 )
Seat 4: QTpie33 ( $24.50 )
Seat 5: HawkEye888 ( $23.50 )
Seat 6: temple20147 ( $41.85 )
Seat 7: SBelcher ( $24.90 )
Seat 8: wyogold ( $59.40 )
Seat 9: Varnai ( $42.55 )
Seat 10: gamblinmike9 ( $5.75 )
gamblinmike9 posts small blind [$0.10].
OzMaNz69 posts big blind [$0.25].

** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to in__training [ Jd Th Ts Qh ]
Miggz86 raises [$0.85].
in__training calls [$0.85].
QTpie33 folds.
HawkEye888 calls [$0.85].
temple20147 calls [$0.85].
>You have options at Table 36999 Table!.
SBelcher calls [$0.85].
wyogold folds.
Varnai calls [$0.85].
gamblinmike9 folds.
OzMaNz69 folds.

** Dealing Flop ** [ Jh, Ad, Tc ]
Miggz86 checks.
in__training checks.
HawkEye888 checks.
temple20147 bets [$2].
SBelcher calls [$2].
Varnai folds.
Miggz86 folds.
in__training calls [$2].
HawkEye888 folds.

** Dealing Turn ** [ Jc ]
in__training checks.
temple20147 bets [$2].
SBelcher calls [$2].
in__training calls [$2].

** Dealing River ** [ Ah ]
in__training checks.
temple20147 checks.
SBelcher checks.
in__training shows [ Jd, Th, Ts, Qh ] a full house, Jacks full of tens.
temple20147 doesn't show [ 8h, 7s, Qs, Ks ] a straight, ten to ace.
SBelcher doesn't show [ Ac, Qc, 2c, Qd ] three of a kind, aces.
in__training wins $16.60 from the main pot with a full house, Jacks full of tens.
Miggz86 has left the table.

I know I played this hand terribly but I was a little afraid of Aces full. I knew temple had a str with the 2 bet on the flop. I was going to throw out a half pot sized bet on the river but the A fell which killed any bet that I could've done. How bad did I play this?

HAND 4

***** Hand History for Game 2632343260 *****
$25 PL Omaha - Wednesday, August 31, 23:10:42 EDT 2005
Table Table 36999 (Real Money)
Seat 10 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 2: AdamLech ( $29.75 )
Seat 3: ZebraUZ ( $58.70 )
Seat 4: in__training ( $25 )
Seat 5: falcons2009 ( $29.20 )
Seat 6: riskybb ( $20.34 )
Seat 7: ccjmmi234 ( $75.34 )
Seat 8: Smallguy2 ( $25 )
Seat 9: Fake_Boobs ( $27.55 )
Seat 10: tree__ ( $13.75 )
Seat 1: NUTZilla313 ( $28.40 )
NUTZilla313 posts small blind [$0.10].
AdamLech posts big blind [$0.25].

** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to in__training [ Ad Jd 9c Tc ]
ZebraUZ calls [$0.25].
in__training calls [$0.25].
falcons2009 calls [$0.25].
riskybb calls [$0.25].
ccjmmi234 folds.
Smallguy2 folds.
Fake_Boobs calls [$0.25].
tree__ calls [$0.25].
NUTZilla313 calls [$0.15].
AdamLech checks.

** Dealing Flop ** [ 3h, 8d, 9d ]
NUTZilla313 checks.
AdamLech checks.
ZebraUZ checks.
in__training bets [$1.90].
falcons2009 folds.
riskybb raises [$7.60].
Fake_Boobs raises [$26.60].
tree__ folds.
NUTZilla313 folds.
AdamLech folds.
ZebraUZ folds.
AdamLech: majjjor draws
>You have options at Table 36548 Table!.
in__training is all-In.
riskybb is all-In.

** Dealing Turn ** [ Kh ]
>You have options at Table 36722 Table!.
** Dealing River ** [ 6s ]
>You have options at Table 37264 Table!.
falcons2009: holy cow
Fake_Boobs shows [ 6h, 8h, 8c, Jh ] three of a kind, eights.
in__training doesn't show [ Ad, Jd, 9c, Tc ] a pair of nines.
riskybb doesn't show [ Qd, 3d, 3s, 3c ] three of a kind, threes.
Fake_Boobs wins $1.85 from side pot #2 with three of a kind, eights.
Fake_Boobs wins $9.32 from side pot #1 with three of a kind, eights.
Fake_Boobs wins $59.27 from the main pot with three of a kind, eights.

I know I probably should have folded this but I had so many outs. I knew FAKEBOOBS had a set but I wasn't sure what the other had, if I had to guess set of 3's and was probably going to call. There was 38.20 in the pot and I had 22.85 left and the other guy had 12.49. So basically there will be 50 in the pot and I have to call 22 to hit my PESD or flush. Is it okay to call here?

[euri10]

hand 1 most i like the way you call this guy raise, your hand is disguised enough to make that check raise on the flop
bet on the river is imho too low but he folded and that was what you were expecting. but in the meantime all cards on turn and river are scary ones and he cannot put you on a full house as you would have not check raised him, so I dont really know what to think about it

hand 2 I think most of the time I rereaise here to thin the field. bet this flop is ok I think but I check the turn and fold here.

hand 3 i reraise preflop also. just call the flop is ok, low set with that board is tough, I think I raise on the turn, fold to a reraise, and I can win the pot right now.

hand 4 I raise perflop, your hand is a nice one especially with the double suited thing. I dont bet this flop however and try to see turn cheaply, I would call on the turn whatever the action is as your outs are good, it reminds me a 3 handed hand I posted against 2 sets like this one

[Felonius_Monk]

Hand 1 I think I bet out on the flop, gives you a bit more info, though your play against this opponent seemed quite clever. I think I like to check-raise the turn after my flop play, after yours I perhaps look to bet a bit more (don't want him hanging in with some sort of draw, make him pay a bit more). You should check-call the river IMO as he's unlikely to call a bet without a hand that beats you (unless you think he's loose enough to put in another bet with a 9). You'd like to provoke a bluff here if he has a 9 or an overpair.

Hand 2 - Hard to say without a read on this guy - unless he's made some wacky moves I guess you have to assume you're behind and muck this; if you've seen him turn over some crap and make some LAGGy plays, might not be a bad call. You at least have 4 outs against a 4.

Hand 3 - I think I fold here and live to fight another day - even if you catch your boat it'll be the worst possible one and thus you won't be able to extract any value; you're always likely to be scared of a higher boat and, with a better and one caller, perhaps rightly so. I guess holding the J and a gutshot to a tying straight gives you a bit more reason to play. I think you played turn and river as well as you could in the circumstances, though it depends a little on your read of these guys (i.e. will they call a big bet with a straight, will they always raise with top boat and never bluff? If so a bet might be called for).

Hand 4 - Jeez, this isn't even CLOSE. Get 'em in every time. You could well be up against two sets in which case you're major +EV. The fact there's been a raise and a re-raise suggests that two sets are very likely. Even if one of your draws isn't entirely clean or a lot of your flush outs are taken, this hand is a monster all the way. To even consider folding here is a crime against omaha! With just a bare flush draw and a nut gutshot you'd be OK to call also. With the open ender it's very strong and regardless what your opponents have you're liable to have the best of this three way pot.

You might think about raising that up preflop as well, although limping in EP when you play is a generally sensible and conservative play.

Monk
xxxxx

[Stl10202]

Ok well I got some well written replies that make a lot of sense.

Hand 1- The turn and river bet was kind of a toss up. I never was really in that position before so I did not know how to play it. Next time I might just check the river and induce a bluff.

The whole hand history for hand 2 follows:

***** Hand History for Game 2632635254 *****
$25 PL Omaha - Wednesday, August 31, 23:54:37 EDT 2005
Table Table 36548 (Real Money)
Seat 2 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 3: in__training ( $40.55 )
Seat 6: temple20147 ( $36.93 )
Seat 8: wyogold ( $45.67 )
Seat 9: Varnai ( $9.75 )
Seat 2: sangrefrio ( $20.90 )
Seat 10: Horsechoker9 ( $24.65 )
Seat 4: FireFox_ ( $36.75 )
Seat 7: marksummers1 ( $26.85 )
Seat 5: kronoskeeper ( $17 )
in__training posts small blind [$0.10].
FireFox_ posts big blind [$0.25].
kronoskeeper posts big blind [$0.25].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to in__training [ Jh Qd Ts As ]
kronoskeeper checks.
temple20147 calls [$0.25].
marksummers1 folds.
wyogold calls [$0.25].
Varnai raises [$0.50].
Horsechoker9 folds.
sangrefrio folds.
in__training calls [$0.40].
FireFox_ raises [$2.50].
kronoskeeper folds.
temple20147 calls [$2.50].
wyogold folds.
Varnai calls [$2.25].
in__training calls [$2.25].
** Dealing Flop ** [ Td, 4s, Ac ]
in__training bets [$10.95].
LeResistance has joined the table.
FireFox_ calls [$10.95].
>You have options at Table 37264 Table!.
temple20147 calls [$10.95].
Varnai folds.
** Dealing Turn ** [ 4c ]
LeResistance: o_0
>You have options at Table 36999 Table!.
>You have options at Table 36722 Table!.
in__training bets [$10].
FireFox_ folds.
temple20147 raises [$20].
in__training calls [$10].
** Dealing River ** [ 9h ]
in__training checks.
temple20147 is all-In.
in__training calls [$3.23].
in__training shows [ Jh, Qd, Ts, As ] two pairs, aces and tens.
temple20147 doesn't show [ 9d, 3h, Ad, Kh ] two pairs, aces and nines.
in__training wins $87.81 from the main pot with two pairs, aces and tens.

Sure it might've been fishy for me to call but I had a hard time believing this guy. I figured I had 4 outs and the pot was already huge. Most of the time, I won't make this call but I thought he was bluffing and thankfully I was right.

Hand 3 put a lot of my knowledge to the test. I was folding to any heavy action but with so many weak bets in there I just couldn't bring myself to it.

To euri, clearly I do not like to raise as much as you do, lol. I can tell you are very aggressive but I just can't do it now. My philosophy is to see a flop for cheap and hope to hit a monster. Sure I raise with some hands but I do not like to reraise with a hand like AQJT bc if the flop comes all low I am screwed, especially out of position. So I just try to see it cheap and hope to hit a hand.

On hand 4, it really depends on my mood on betting the nut flush draw in EP or not. Advantages of doing it are a Kxs might come along and you can check raise the turn if you hit. However, if you don't hit, players usually check leaving usually having to fold unless you have more outs. Disadvantages to doing it is shown by this hand example. After a raise and reraise it is hard to call with just a flush draw.

More on hand 4- I went in with the mother of draws, I was about even money to make the best hand as says twodimes. On a side note, Monk you need to make up your mind on whether or not you should go all in on a draw or not. One time you say do it others you say don't. When is it right to go all in? When you have at least 15 outs? Pot odds say it's ok? Please clarify.

[Felonius_Monk]

You go all in on this hand because that's the only move you can make. I've said in the past that in most situations where there's some money left to bet you don't RAISE all in on a draw on the flop (if you're pretty sure you're up against a set you can save your money if the board pairs, yet if you hit your draw and there's little money remaining you'll get your opponents last scraps anyway).

In this situation you're CALLING all-in with a big draw against two opponents who likely have set or 2-pair type hands. It's simply a case of pot odds; you're putting in your last $23 to potentially win a $70 pot in which you're liable to have 35-50% equity, depending on the other hands, so it's an easy call. If you had $5 left after the call you WOULD just call instead of going to the felt on the flop; if the turn pairs the board you can then save that last five bucks. If the turn hits your draw, you push in the last 15 bucks, but as the 15 bucks carries no fold equity whatsoever there's no point pushing it in when the turn card could still kill your draw stone dead, for instance if a board pair shows up. If you collect your draw your opponents will both pay you off by chasing boats anyway. So, even though you're nominally "ahead" on the hand on the flop, and are the money favourite at this point, there's no need to shove it all in. You see what I mean?

It's OK to raise on a draw if the situation demands it - generally, when you are EV favourite AND when you WON'T get paid off if you take a cheap card and hit. An example would be three handed on the turn with a 20-out draw (open ender plus two flush draws) against two opponents you have pegged on sets, with everybody having fairly deep money - if you check or simply call to see the river and hit, you won't get paid, but if you build the pot now by raising, you may get all in in a +EV situation with these guys.

Just because a draw is +EV, or even the money favourite, doesn't mean it's raisable in every situation. Just have some thought about what's going to happen on later streets and decide accordingly.

However, that's RAISING all-in on a draw - any time you're in a situation of CALLING all in, the answer is simple - you call when it's in your interests (+EV) to do so, and fold otherwise. Heads up you need 35-40% of the equity of the pot to call a full pot raise, three handed you need just over 25%. I would like to have a draw whereby I hit a winner 40% and 30% of the time in those two situations respectively, to allow some leeway in a "worst case scenario" that an above average number of my outs are shared between the opponents' hands. As I said, in the hand you played, you probably had (rough estimate) somewhere around 45% of the equity in a 3-way coup so you it's an easy call.

Hope this explains what I mean a bit more!

Monk
xxxxx