Stalling at the next level

[teknipper]

Normally, I play PL Omaha 8 25 and some 50 tables. For the last month or so, I have been playing the PL Omaha 8 100 tables on Party, UB, and PS in a effort to step up the profits. However, over the last month I have pretty much been at a holding pattern as far as the bankroll goes.

I think I definately have the talent and bankroll for the level, but I feel the big difference is the quality of opponent. As Ray Zee states, your profit at O8 is not in your good plays, but in your opponents bad plays. At the upper levels, it seems like there are better players who make less mistakes therefore less profit from poor play.

My question to the PLO8 players is what do you think is more profitable (grossing)? The PL 25 / 50 tables or the PL 100 / 200 tables? Should I continue to play at the PL 100 levels and figure out the more advances plays needed or stick to the gaureenteed money at the PL 25s?

Tom

[Felonius_Monk]

Depends on what your ambitions in the game are. If you're happy winning a relatively modest (buut significant) amount and staying in your comfort zone, stick with PLO8 25 and 50. If you want to move up the ladder and test your skills to the limit, I'd advise trying to move up slowly and surely (making sure you're over-bankrolled at each step).

I have been playing PLO 100 and 200 for about two years now, with the odd bit of 400. I guess you could say I stick in my comfort zone, and i'm relatively happy with it. I know i could make more if I played higher and I've had the BR to play more or less any game for some time, but I'm fairly happy ploughing along as I am now, although I have had some thoughts to try to get beyond the 200 PLO8 games at some stage, who knows whether I'll get a "second wind" in 2006 and maybe go for it then. I don't think there's any shame in finding a "ceiling", I'm comfortable in the games I play, and I make more per hour than I am conceivably ever likely to in the career path of my current job, so that suits me for the moment. Lack of ambition perhaps but I'm not losing any sleep over it.

You should note that with PLO8, the tables at UB and Stars seem to be abnormally rocky above the $50 buyin level, so you're probably not in the best games. At UB especially I've almost never seen a good $100 or $200 hi/lo game. The Party games are decent though. Don't bother playing if the average pot is much below $30 for a 100PLO8 table, and/or the average number of players in a hand is very low, or there doesn't seem to be at least one or two poor players.

Another alternative is to increase your winrate by increasing the number of tables you play. This is what I've done at 100 and 200, until I now regularly play 7 or 8 at once. I guess, therefore, my winrate is somewhere around what could be expected from one table of PLO 1000, for a very good player, although I rarely have much more than $1k in play at any one time and (because it's in increments) my variance is much lower than it would be playing a PLO 1000 game.

Hope this is some food for thought anyhow.

Monk
xxxxx

[Kuso]

What a fortuitous post... I was thinking of asking a related question.

What are the primary differences between the $100 and $200 levels of PLO8 at Party? Are there still plenty of profitable mistakes made by opponents at the $200 level? Do people raise aggressively so as to promote their second and third nut hands? Any insight is welcome.

As I mentioned in another post, I assume that $100 PLO8 is similar to $25 except that the extreme morons are not there -- also maybe a little tighter and a bit more aggressive. I've observed the play and was not overly impressed.

Sadly, Ray Zee seems to think the PLO8 has no future due to the fact that the fish get put in their place so quickly that the games usually end up being a ring of competent players shoving chips around. I wonder if he is talking more about live games rather than online. Does anyone know at what level this holds true (if at all) at Party?

[edited for spelling]

[teknipper]

I have played some PL 100 and PL 200 tables. I don't see a big difference between the two, but I don't have that much PL 200 experience. I am trying to stay at the PL 100 tables, just to work up slowly in case I decide to jump back down.

An (online) friend of mine is playing Party only now and believes that there is no difference between PL 100 and PL 600. From some of the hand histories that he has sent me, I can see his point.

Monk, I agree with your comments about being in your confort zone. If you think about the money instead of thinking about the correct poker play, then you are playing too high.

Tom

[Felonius_Monk]

[Kuso]

[Felonius_Monk]

As for table selection, I am becoming a hyper-aggressive player when I play a hand these days so I'm looking for a table with relatively passive players who don't do anything tricky but who play relatively loosely preflop and players who don't lead bet into a raiser who has position on them. A good mix of loose and tight is probably best, but I don't like running into too many aggros. Of course, you can't tell any of this before you sit down - so I look for average pots of 30BB and over, if possible. High flop % are also very good as it signals that the table likely contain players who play A4 and A5-type hands for low. These folks tend to be pretty easy money.

25PLO8 I only play if I'm messing about, drunk, showing someone the game or releasing the bonus and there's not enough action for 4 tables of 100 and 200 stuff. I have pretty much given up on PLO at party now, PLO8 seems a better game for me there. People play there to release bonuses I guess because it's a hard game to lose your shirt on a table of tighties. I have had moderate success there recently playing the same aggressive game which I guess I'd have to rein in a bit if I played outside bonus times.