Holy #$%@ these guys are tight

[GooperMC]

[GooperMC]

[Felonius_Monk]

[Felonius_Monk]

[GooperMC]

[Felonius_Monk]

Depends on the opponent, doesnt it? Against a tight, decent opponent who doesn't make a lot of bluffs or tricky plays, your hand is probably behind and it's a marginal fold (although the poster is right that there's not a lot he's far behind to, he'll be facing another pot bet on the turn out of position so if it blanks off it's a tricky spot, even if a non-straight low comes he's probably getting 3/4ed; can only assume the J is of no use). Against a lot of opponents, though, that raise could mean as little as two pair, or a hand that's ahead of you like A2KK but played by an opponent who won't let it go if a big straightening card appears to give you 3/4 or a scoop. Against these fellas I think there's nothing wrong with peeling one off. Again, your big problem is that you can catch a low card and get tied in to calling another two big bets with a hand that's probably getting quartered, and has reverse implied odds hurting your implied odds to go for the scoop/three-quarter on the river. The difficulty then comes on folding the turn if an 8 appears and your opponent pots it. That said, I make the raise with a number of hands on that flop - some that are dogs to A35J.

I don't think it's as simple as just "fold". In this spot, the opponent was clearly a balloon and thus folding the hand would be a mistake. Like I said, I think you have to have some situational feeling, right?

[Felonius_Monk]

I should qualify by saying that I don't run into a lot of tight-aggressive types in the $100 PLO8 games so there's no way I'd be dropping this here unless i'm up against... well, I dunno.... I prefer to call rather than push as you have first refusal at the turn and thus can bet out if a flush card comes. That said, if someone bets INTO me on the flop I raise it - in the stated case, however, the re-raise suggests it's pretty close between your hand and his, so I don't want to go escalating things just yet.

Anyhow, this has worked for me at 100 and 200 to the tune of 20-some BB/100, so I guess it can't be too disastrous.

[Felonius_Monk]

Also, having read the hand again the opponent didn't raise preflop - this seems to narrow down a couple of the possible hands he might have that have the A35 wrap in real trouble; I'd guess at 100PLO you're likely looking at someone with a set, or perhaps 2 pair plus a low draw. People don't tend to raise draws too aggressively at that level, they're pretty passive on the flop with things like A3h. That jack could, I guess, be an option against A3h. I think the likelihood is that both hands are closely matched and so it's pretty difficult to fold this bad boy. With very deep stacks and a known quality opponent who rarely, if ever, makes any sort of bluff, well, like I said before you could consider it.

Right, gonna put this one to bed now as far as my input goes

[JDLush]

[GooperMC]

[GooperMC]

[Kuso]

Here is the that discusses the same hand -- with much better advice, imho.

I think Smash is not adjusting his advice to the level of game that is being played. I think every good poker book I've read suggests that you should loosen up with your hand selection and calls if the table is looser than you. In fact, I think that Ray Zee suggests that you only need to be the tightest player at your table, not just a monolithic tight player.

Also note that Smash said nothing about check-calling -- his comments were just only the pot-repot situation. This is a tack that he uses often. In certain circumstances it makes him technically correct while giving advice that is not as complete as it could (and perhaps should) be.

I think the advice on FCP is often good textbook advice, but I don't think it always washes in actual games. If nothing else, advice like this leaves a LOT of money on the table.

FWIW, on the hand, I do advocate check-call in an effort to manage the size of the pot. If your low/wheel hits, you could probably get away with a check-raise on the turn. If it's a wheel, I would expect to scoop or 3/4 most of the time unless opponent is a proven winner. If you miss, you can see whether you get pot odds to call to see the river.

[Kuso]

The OP didn't mention stack sizes, but if the are shallow, getting it all in on the flop is also playable. I want to see the remaining two cards.

[Felonius_Monk]

JD - the best thing about the hand in question is that you're not even in trouble against A3 suited - in fact, if the A3s doesn't have a pair higher than a J to go with it, you're ahead I believe.

[Xaston]