How do you play this?

[reveen]

182 person MTT
About 3/4 of an hour in.

I have 3200 chips (started with 1500)
Villan has 2500
BLindes are 30/60

I am in Middle position and get
I limp

SB raises to 180
all fold, I call

FLOP


I bet $400
Villan rsises to $1200

I have top pair and the nut flush draw.
What is my play?

[briachek]

I put you on 12 outs (flush and T) but I think you misplayed the flop. I would have check raised it and put him at the decision. This way, he could put the pressure on you and you now have no fold equity.

If you are behind AK-AJ like I think you are, you have to determine if you want to play a coinflip since that's basically what it is. Since there is money in the pot, I guess you have to push and hope.

There could be a case for folding to his raise preflop or raising yourself first in. You will often get yourself involved in a dominated hand like this.

Also, you said the SB raised but you bet the flop. Did he check to you and check raised you?

[reveen]

Yea, he checked the flop which I took for weakness. I was thinking that the 2 hearts would slow him down. Like you said, I figured I had 12 outs and figured it was also possible that he raised with KK or QQ.

I pushed and he called with AK. No help for me on the turn or river.

I hear what you are saying about the preflop play, but what should I have done after he checked the flop. Should I have taken a free card then folded to any substantial bets if I did not improve?

I am really having trouble picking my spots in tournaments. I do pretty well in the ring games (7.5BB/100 over 15,000 hands) but I completly suck at tournys.

I have played probably around 20 or so in the past few months (mostly $5 satellites or <$10 buy ins) and have only made the money once. I came in second in a satellite and won a $100 but in.

Time to read a book on tounament play I guess

[low dough]

If you think you are behind, and he is giving you a free card to catch enough to beat him, Take The Free Card.
Missing out on getting to check-raise you might make him bet less on the turn than the checkraise would have cost you on the flop. Just to see if you have anything.

If you did catch on the turn, then you could try to raise his little bet, and may even get him to fold a set against a now 3-flushed board.
Make it his mistake, not yours.

[kennyg]

You can always fold to the check-raise. In a cash game I would say that's a travesty of poker, but in tournament poker pot odds don't matter as much. You can't reload if you lose, so that is always a consideration in a tournament. Survive, survive, survive. That's how you win tournaments.

[reveen]

[kennyg]

survive, survive, survive, then get aggresive when the blinds get high and get lucky.

[Suhleafs]

One of the first things you should know about tournament poker is this. If you are going to enter a hand, you should enter it for a raise. When it gets to the SB in this instance, he probably would have reraised you, in order to define his hand and the hand would have been over right there.

Flop: When he checks to you, think to yourself: if I bet, then get raised, can I continue with the hand? If your answer is no, then you MUST check and take the free card. You always leave your options open when you check, THEN when the turn card hits, you can decide if you have the best hand or not.

As it happens, you should have let go of the hand, unless you felt like playing for it all right then and there knowing you're behind.

[Cactus Jack]

Guys new to tournament play coming from ring play often find themselves in this situation. It's a different game, and you can't really take your skills from one to the other. There are some rare exceptions, those who can play both, but they very rare birds indeed.

AT is a playable hand in a ring game, but not in a tournament in this situation. AT is a playable hand from the button or CO in an unopened pot. (Sometimes unopened means unraised, but not always. I'm an AK-AQ limper from early positions, and sometimes even from later. I'm a trapper, in the first hour or more.) I get my chips from guys who overplay their hands, like AT.

Given the above, I'd have folded to his raise, preflop. Now, you're in trouble. (Believe it or not, when I read your HH, I put him on AK.) You aren't going to win the pot, unless your flush comes through, which means you fold. Draws are tournament death, both when they hit it and when you don't. That's two you lose and one you win. Ironic this is the same as your odds of hitting it, isn't it?

The responses you received above are all from better players than I. Heed their advice. I just thought I'd throw in my two cents for flavor.

CJ

ps--reading a book is good and highly recommended. But there is simply no substitute for experience. You have to play a lot of tournaments to improve. A LOT.

[Stoneburg]

[TexasKowboy]

Great stuff everyone.

The only time your play would be correct reveen is if you know the SB to be LAG. But even LAG's get good hands. If he is LAG then checks the flop hold on to you ass because he has what he thinks is a monster and he now wants to trap.

In the hand above so many hands have you beat. Everything from A9 or better to trips.

You don't want to put your Trn life on the line with a draw, BUT you might want to put someone elses TRN life on a draw. What I am getting at if he only had T1500 or less then you can play your hand. Your drawing to the nuts and if you miss your just back where you started but if you hit you now have enough chips where you can bully the table and steal more blinds.

I like to avoid the big stacks and attack the small stacks.

CJ,

For a cash player it sure looks like you have the TRN game figured out.

LD, Leaf and KG I know can play and from the post I have seen from Stone he is someone I also want to avoid.

[Cactus Jack]

[devilmollusk]

The thing to remember early in an MTT is that your seat is worth more than your chips. Don't be afraid to fold. So like others say, don't ever limp marginal hands. If you are going to put your chips in early on, do it with good holdings or good position. And once you have limped this, when he raises, dump it. You are likely dominated.

I would also be very wary of the player who raised from the blinds (usually a sign of strength) and then checks the continuation op. This is a trap. And even if it isn't, the free card helps you more than him.

The final point to make here is I would not play big pots for coinflips early in an MTT. If you are going to commit chips, do so when you are a heavy favorite, or at least think you are.

Personally my starting hand requirements early in an MTT are jj or better and AK. I will play AQ and AJ in position if I can be the raiser and hope to steal the blinds. I know you see these guys that mix it up and double and triple up early on. Sure they get big stacks. But check their win rates. Remember, even a broken clock is right twice a day. Once the field thins and the blinds are up you need to steal a bit and mix it up in position to build your stack and have a shot at the final table.

[TexasKowboy]

[Cactus Jack]

Right, don't mess with the big dog. Against the really small stacks, you have to have a good hand because they're going to push and you'll have to show it down. Bluffing only works against the middle stacks, as they have to play it more cautiously than the big and short stacks.

Looking back at the original hand, if, a big IF, I were going to play this hand, I'd have to come in for a raise on it. Then, if the SB raises, I can dump it without ever having to face the tough decisions that came on the flop and later rounds. Thus, again we see the merits of raise or fold.

CJ