Odds needed to chase flush draw

[briachek]

This isn't as simple of a question as it may seem. I know the actual odds of hitting a flush draw but what do people normally look for when chasing a bare nut flush draw in PLO? Mainly, implied odds. It seems recently that whenever I call with just under the needed odds, like heads up, and I hit it on the turn, I win no extra money because people notice flush draws. However, with just a flush draw, I can't call a pot turn bet so I only get to see if I hit on the turn.

So my question is, barring a known calling station that will pay you off big, what do you look for when chasing a bare nut flush draw? Heads up but with position? At least 2 players? I feel that I'm probably losing money chasing flush draws for one bet because I don't get paid off enough to cover when I call and check/fold a missed turn.

[Kuso]

[briachek]

well, i draw to nut flushes and if there are 2 on the board, that means i have 8 outs for the turn being the 9 flush cards minus the one that pairs the board.

[Felonius_Monk]

As a rule I generally look for either a bet and a call for a pot-sized bet IF there's still plenty of money behind to play with, or a half-pot bet (thereabouts). I won't call a full pot bet with just a flush draw if there's no additional money in the pot. I won't call if there's a big LAG behind me itching to raise either. I loosen up a lot when I have a little of something else, like an overpair or a gutshot, and am more inclined to call pot bets when there's money left behind. I think you can also be a little looser if you're up against a real calling station type who'll pay off bets with 2 pairs, weak flushes etc.

The problem with draws is that straight draws are very vulnerable, but flush draws are hard to get paid off against semi-decent oppos. Best thing is to have both in one hand!

[Kuso]

monk, it seems like you are saying that there can be good implied odds if the stacks are deep... but briachek suggests (and you) suggest that it can be hard to get paid off if the flush hits. what signs do you look for that make you think you will get paid off? calling station in pto/pahud stats is one... any others?

also, are you implying that you might have odds to continue on the turn if you miss?

i don't think that the "call when a bet and call is made with penty of money behind" gives proper pot odds, so are you basing your valuation on implied odds? i guess this feeds back into my first question about conditions for getting paid off. i'd appreciate it if you could explain your thinking a bit more.

briachek... 8 outs is right (about 17% to hit iirc)... i was thinking of the numbers for your made turn flush to stay good to the river.

[Felonius_Monk]

[tarheel1]

if you are in the hand with me and I make a pot sized bet with the nut straight on the turn and you are the only caller from my limited history with PLO you appear to have a 99% chance of hitting your flush card on the river. likewise when I have top set on an uncoordinated board (only 2 of a suite showing)