So, Matpi

[AdamtheExpert]

How ya doin'?

I realize it's hard and boring to play micro games, but If you really HAVE to make it, you can do it!

ATE likes to have fun sometimes, in the .25-.50 games, but plays them very seriously.

Typically, I make like 10-15 dollar a WHACK, usualyl about 2 hours or so.


Funny, for the life of me, I can't play something like 3-6, now that I have some money.

But, for some reason, I CAN play the tiny games, correctly.


IF YOU WORK HARD, AND ARE PATIENT, YOU CAN TAKE 20 BUCKS OR SO, INTO a life's career!


I'm not joking around!


One month at .25-.50 and you should have enough to play 1-2 two months at that, and you should have enough for 3-6.

It's hard, it's boring, but it CAN be done.


And along the way, just for excitiment, you can play 5 and 10 dollar tournaments.


Just do NOT go up in limit, until you have at least 200 or so big bets.

This is NOT enough to insure that you won't go broke, but is a reasonable amount, when you do NOT need to spend any of your winnings.

And, when you lose 40%, you drop back down to a lower level.


Anyway, I hope the best for you.



Poker is WORK, not fun. If your having fun, you're NOT working. and If your NOT working, your NOT making money.


Adam

[cholo loco]

if you are not having fun playing poker you are probably not making good use of your time. almost anyone who is intelligent enough to play poker proffesionally could make more doing something else (unless you have the bankroll and experience to play over 1k-2k)
now if you are not that intelligent and are content to grind out 6 bucks an hour multtabling 1-2n and that is comparable to you maximum earn outside of poker this too may be another exception.
but for most players if you dont enjoy what your doing you should do something else. most respected poker players/authours agree with this and im surprised adam dosent.
matty

[AdamtheExpert]

Uh, I've only heard ONE famous player say that you should enjoy poker, to play it well,
Where is this "most players" list?

and, you think you have to play 1000-2000, to make more money than you could at something else?

Coma on, choc.

30-60, is enough to make a quarter million a year, easily. YOu don't have to enjoy it, to make money. It's nice is you do, I didn't say you can't ENJOY it, but you should NOT be having fun!

There is a difference. If your having fun, the chances are that you are NOT playing as well as you should.

Poker is serious BUSINESS, and should be treated as a BUSINESS, not a game, or playtime.

I will NEVER go along with a concept, just because everyone else does.

I'm quite sure that many "famous" players, say things that they do NOT believe in, just because they don't want to go against the majority opnion.


If something is WRONG, ATE don't care is I'm the only one in the world, to say so.

Such as the rediculous notion, that poker is "one long poker game"


But, I do thank you for your participation in this section.

[phatlad]

That's my nightly grind, ATE. 50/1 at party. I consider a good night $20; a decent night $10.

Sure, I'd love to go up, but my bankroll can't support it.

It's a grind. I look forward to it, but I can't remember the last time I had fun doing it, just like you said man!

[cholo loco]

i didnt say you couldnt make money if you didnt enjoy it. ifyou truly can not work at something that is worth more to you than grinding out that 20 bucks keep doing so.
if you are smart enough to beat the 30-60 for 250k a year then there is a good chance that you could make much more applying your hard work elsewhere. maybe not in the short term but long term almost certainly.
im not going to have a long winded arguement we will just have to agree to disagree.
im also not saying poker should not be treated as a business as it certainly should.
however it should be a business you enjoy or your efforts would almost certainly be spent better on a different business.
this is an opinion so i wont say adam is wrong but i will say that most (all?)knowledgeable players/authorities would agree with me.
sklansky has actually written quite a bit on this very subject.
gl
matty

[Felonius_Monk]

To make money without working a heavy city job where you're working like 100 hours a week for the first ten years of your career is certainly possible but, like most things in life, you need money to start out. My ex became very rich in the world of fashion by having a talent for it, but couldn't have got started without a large chunk of cash to start a business with. Of course, you do need a certain amount to play 30/60 year in year out (probably 20-30k minimum) to make that sort of money, but by that same token could you really start something entrepreneurial that makes 250k a year with a 20k start, and be earning right away within 6 months? I think that it would be virtually impossible without external help, but correct me if i'm wrong.

For the really aggressively minded business brain, I think there is much more money to be made doing something else, but you need to have the opportunity and finances to get INTO something else, whereas poker is pretty easily accessible.

Monk
xxxxx

[Dkay04]

[cholo loco]

felonious monk,
for the short term i think you are correct that there are few ways to make a quik buck then poker.
matty

[Cactus Jack]

Choco loco,

I think I understand what you're saying. Perhaps there's a problem with terms?

You can enjoy playing poker. You can have fun. You can win. What I think Adam is saying is you can't have fun and win. If you're "having fun," you probably are playing losing poker. You can enjoy it and win, and winning is certainly more enjoyable than losing, but rarely does satisfaction in your profession reach the level of fun. A professional athlete puts in long hours of practice, puts up with the travel, takes the losses with the wins, and works far harder than the guys playing pickup at the YMCA, who are having fun.

To your second point: A lot of people have the intelligence to make a lot of money, but often lack one or more of the other talents necessary to do so.

I am a pretty smart guy. I have an outgoing personality. I have no discipline for the long term. And I get on peoples' nerves fairly quickly. I made over 60k last year selling cars, my first year. I also worked 70 hours a week, often. If I worked as many hours at poker, with commensurate stress that comes with most high-paying jobs, I'd make more playing poker, without having my usual struggles with management. Whoever believes playing poker professionally is "easy money" is sure to be saying other stupid things. However, if there were an easy high-paying job, there would never be an opening. In fact, there may BE such a job, but it's a very closely-held secret.

Success in business often requires more talents in other areas than intelligence. In fact, intelligence may be a hinderance to success. Ever heard of "too smart for your own good"? Old sayings become old sayings because they're true.

Just my dos centavos.


CJ

[AdamtheExpert]

[mattpj]

[AdamtheExpert]