Why I hate AA+low

[TomG]

Omaha Hi/Low $2-$2 PL
Hero is UTG+1 ~ $200
Villain is MP ~ $200 Not much of a read. Villain appears to be very tight pre-flop--VPIP 16.7, PFR 11.1, AF-Tot 1.00 but that's only over 18 hands

PRE-FLOP [ AC,10H,5H,AD ]
1 Fold, Hero calls $2, 2 folds, limper calls $2, Villain bets $10, 4 folds, Hero bets $34, limper folds, Villain calls $26.

FLOP [board cards 10C,2H,8H ]
Hero bets $78, Villain bets $152 and is all-in, Hero calls $74.

TURN [board cards 10C,2H,8H,JS ]

RIVER [board cards 10C,2H,8H,JS,QH ]

SHOWDOWN
Villain shows [ AH,4S,8S,3H ]
Hero shows [ AC,10H,5H,AD ]
Villain wins $379.

I guess there's a few things I learned from this hand... AA5x isn't as strong pre-flop if it isn't the best low. Villain was pretty tight pre-flop leading me to believe he has a better low. Limp re-raising is the standard play, perhaps it should have been modified for the villain in question. (I was a slight favorite pre-flop FYI)...

http://twodimes.net/h/?z=1453284
pokenum -mc 500000 -o8 ah 4s 8s 3h - ac th 5h ad
Omaha Hi/Low 8-or-better: 500000 sampled boards
cards scoop HIwin HIlos HItie LOwin LOlos LOtie EV
8s 4s Ah 3h 160342 178678 320004 1318 224993 22392 5497 0.462
Ac Ad Th 5h 199543 320004 178678 1318 25602 134020 5497 0.538

I thought this was actually a very nice flop for my hand. The 2H is a nice counterfeit card for the villain and my AA plus flush draw looks good for the high. Unfortunately, this flop hit the villain even harder. In fact, this hand could almost be a lesson in how *well* my hand does post-flop. This is about as good as flop as possible for the villain and he *only* had 67.7% equity.

http://twodimes.net/h/?z=1453281
pokenum -o8 ah 4s 8s 3h - ac th 5h ad -- tc 2h 8h
Omaha Hi/Low 8-or-better: 820 enumerated boards containing Tc 8h 2h
cards scoop HIwin HIlos HItie LOwin LOlos LOtie EV
8s 4s Ah 3h 436 439 381 0 558 9 0 0.677
Ac Ad Th 5h 146 381 439 0 9 460 0 0.323

Anyway, that was an expensive lesson in AA5x. I don't want this to be some kind of bad beat post. I was a dog when all the money went in after all, so I have no right to complain. It just shows how AA5x type hands involve a lot of gambling. I gambled against my opponent's range of hands and got the short end of it. Any thoughts?

[GooperMC]

[JDLush]

[GooperMC]

It if makes you feel better this is why I hate AA+low

***** Hand History for Game 3343981268 *****
$25 PL Omaha Hi/Lo - Monday, January 09, 20:25:25 EDT 2006
Table Table 65413 (Real Money)
Seat 8 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: gamer55 ( $10.25 )
Seat 2: DallasFatAss ( $23.23 )
Seat 3: japook ( $24.17 )
Seat 4: Sibley_1 ( $22.95 )
Seat 5: IAmABuggyBot ( $24.65 )
Seat 8: LONGSKY ( $41.29 )
Seat 9: P3Pilot ( $11.15 )
Seat 10: joebiewc3 ( $19.58 )
Seat 6: jason31088 ( $25 )
Seat 7: akumafx ( $14.91 )
P3Pilot posts small blind [$0.10].
joebiewc3 is sitting out.
gamer55 posts big blind [$0.25].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to IAmABuggyBot [ 5h Td Ac Ah ]
joebiewc3 has left the table.
DallasFatAss folds.
japook folds.
Sibley_1 folds.
IAmABuggyBot calls [$0.25].
jason31088 folds.
akumafx folds.
LONGSKY raises [$1.10].
P3Pilot folds.
gamer55 folds.
IAmABuggyBot raises [$3.40].
LONGSKY raises [$10.20].
IAmABuggyBot is all-In [$21]
LONGSKY calls [$13.35].
** Dealing Flop ** [ 3d, 8s, As ]
** Dealing Turn ** [ Jd ]
** Dealing River ** [ 7d ]
LONGSKY shows [ Kd, 5c, 6s, Ad ] a flush, ace high.
LONGSKY shows 7,6,5,3,A for low.
IAmABuggyBot doesn't show [ 5h, Td, Ac, Ah ] three of a kind, aces.
IAmABuggyBot doesn't show 8,7,5,3,A for low.
LONGSKY wins $23.60 from the main pot with a flush, ace high.
LONGSKY wins Lo ($23.60) from the main pot with 7,6,5,3,A.

[JDLush]

Ahh....but this is why I love AA + low

And yes, I think my call on the flop was suspect, but I put the original bettor on A3 and was hoping to get a side pot with the other caller, hence the raise.

***** Hand History for Game 3344654386 *****
$25 PL Omaha Hi/Lo - Monday, January 09, 22:07:09 EDT 2006
Table Table 66007 (Real Money)
Seat 1 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 5: eagles57 ( $47.97 )
Seat 6: joebiewc3 ( $14.74 )
Seat 7: ams1929 ( $88.50 )
Seat 9: foodman111 ( $24.30 )
Seat 10: Griffon250 ( $24.20 )
Seat 3: BurdTurglar ( $31.29 )
Seat 1: crammy ( $13.47 )
Seat 2: lmassey ( $26.27 )
Seat 4: Jim2931 ( $20.20 )
Seat 8: jzenaaz ( $24.10 )
lmassey posts small blind [$0.10].
BurdTurglar posts big blind [$0.25].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to BurdTurglar [ 6d Ac 2h As ]
Jim2931 calls [$0.25].
eagles57 raises [$0.50].
>You have options at Table 68492 Table!.
joebiewc3 calls [$0.50].
ams1929 folds.
jzenaaz calls [$0.50].
foodman111 calls [$0.50].
Griffon250 folds.
crammy calls [$0.50].
lmassey folds.
BurdTurglar raises [$3.60].
Jim2931 folds.
eagles57 calls [$3.35].
joebiewc3 calls [$3.35].
jzenaaz folds.
foodman111 folds.
crammy calls [$3.35].
** Dealing Flop ** [ 5h, 4h, 2d ]
BurdTurglar checks.
eagles57 checks.
joebiewc3 is all-In [$10.89]
crammy folds.
>You have options at Table 68492 Table!.
BurdTurglar raises [$21.78].
eagles57 folds.
** Dealing Turn ** [ 7c ]
** Dealing River ** [ 9s ]
BurdTurglar shows [ 6d, Ac, 2h, As ] a pair of aces.
BurdTurglar shows 6,5,4,2,A for low.
joebiewc3 doesn't show [ 3s, 2c, Kh, Jh ] a pair of twos.
joebiewc3 doesn't show 7,5,4,3,2 for low.
BurdTurglar wins $5.45 from side pot #1 with a pair of aces.
BurdTurglar wins Lo ($5.44) from side pot #1 with 6,5,4,2,A.
BurdTurglar wins $18.32 from the main pot with a pair of aces.
BurdTurglar wins Lo ($18.31) from the main pot

[TomG]

Hmm neither example makes me feel much better. Gooper, you were able to get your opponent to shove pre-flop when it's pretty safe you're going to be a favorite. JD pretty much shoved blind hoping villain didn't have A3. That's pretty much the reason I dread playing weaker AA+low hands. The goal is to pot it pre-flop and get it heads-up or shorthanded. But then we're going to end up potting most flops, putting us dangerously close to becoming pot-comitted. If that's the strategy, then that's some pretty nice implied odds we're offering any opponent who wants to take a flop (Especially out of position). They call pre-flop, and then if they can hit a flop, they can get us to commit our chips on the flop when AA+low may no longer be a favorite. Not fun.

[JDLush]

[GooperMC]

TG, I also agree with your analysis; however, I am not going to give up good implied odds because I am going to outplay my opponent post flop.

IMO AA + weak low is the hardest hand to play in PLO8 which is why bad players lose lots of money with these hand and good players win a little bit of money. Playing AA + weak low fast forces you to make difficult decisions for your entire stack which obviously hurts you if you can't make the correct decision.

When I get back home and can merge my PTO databases I can post full numbers but here are my semi-detailed AA+low (not 2 or 3) numbers.
Hands: 61
BB/Hand: 4.2
% of total winnings: 16%

[Kuso]