Good laydowns?

[Cactus Jack]

I think I'm probably in the wrong game here, as the two opponents are strong players. I could use some insight with these two hands.

PokerStars Game #3729903826: Omaha Pot Limit ($0.25/$0.50) - 2006/01/23 - 10:55:37 (ET)
Table 'Iphiklos' Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: dirindo ($76.85 in chips)
Seat 2: Al_Gohti ($37 in chips)
Seat 3: doc_oliday ($47.50 in chips)
Seat 4: Micco ($51.10 in chips)
Seat 5: CactusJack49 ($56.80 in chips)
Seat 6: PAM61 ($12.40 in chips)
Seat 7: Nr1InEurope ($14.50 in chips)
Seat 9: oskar92 ($161.40 in chips)
CactusJack49: posts small blind $0.25
PAM61: posts big blind $0.50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to CactusJack49 [6c 8s 8h 7h]
Nr1InEurope: calls $0.50
oskar92: folds
dirindo: folds
Al_Gohti: calls $0.50
doc_oliday: calls $0.50
Micco: calls $0.50
CactusJack49: calls $0.25
PAM61: checks
*** FLOP *** [5s Td 8d]
CactusJack49: checks
PAM61: bets $2.85
Nr1InEurope: calls $2.85
Al_Gohti: folds
doc_oliday: raises $11.40 to $14.25
Micco: folds
CactusJack49: calls $14.25
PAM61: calls $9.05 and is all-in
Nr1InEurope: calls $11.15 and is all-in
*** TURN *** [5s Td 8d]
CactusJack49: checks
doc_oliday: bets $32.75 and is all-in
CactusJack49: folds
*** RIVER *** [5s Td 8d Ah]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
doc_oliday: shows [9c Th 3s Ts] (a full house, Tens full of Eights)
doc_oliday collected $0.45 from side pot-2
CactusJack49 said, "****"
Nr1InEurope: shows [5c 2s 4d Ad] (two pair, Aces and Eights)
doc_oliday collected $6 from side pot-1
PAM61: mucks hand
CactusJack49 said, "just folded QUADS!!!"
doc_oliday collected $48.10 from main pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $57.40 Main pot $48.10. Side pot-1 $6. Side pot-2 $0.45. | Rake $2.85
Board [5s Td 8d Ah 8c]
Seat 1: dirindo folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: Al_Gohti folded on the Flop
Seat 3: doc_oliday showed [9c Th 3s Ts] and won ($54.55) with a full house, Tens full of Eights
Seat 4: Micco (button) folded on the Flop
Seat 5: CactusJack49 (small blind) folded on the Turn
Seat 6: PAM61 (big blind) mucked [4c 9h Jc 9d]
Seat 7: Nr1InEurope showed [5c 2s 4d Ad] and lost with two pair, Aces and Eights
Seat 9: oskar92 folded before Flop (didn't bet)

Would have hit quads, but I think I made the right decision. Should I have stacked off?

PokerStars Game #3729932708: Omaha Pot Limit ($0.25/$0.50) - 2006/01/23 - 11:01:43 (ET)
Table 'Iphiklos' Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: dirindo ($71.35 in chips)
Seat 2: Al_Gohti ($35.75 in chips)
Seat 3: doc_oliday ($86.30 in chips)
Seat 4: Micco ($49.50 in chips)
Seat 5: CactusJack49 ($41.55 in chips)
Seat 6: PAM61 ($25.50 in chips)
Seat 7: gretko ($52.95 in chips)
Seat 9: oskar92 ($160.90 in chips)
doc_oliday: posts small blind $0.25
Micco: posts big blind $0.50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to CactusJack49 [4d Kd Ks 7d]
CactusJack49: calls $0.50
PAM61: calls $0.50
gretko: folds
oskar92: folds
dirindo: raises $2.25 to $2.75
Al_Gohti: folds
doc_oliday: folds
Micco: folds
CactusJack49: calls $2.25
PAM61: folds
*** FLOP *** [4h 9d Ad]
CactusJack49: checks
dirindo: bets $6.45
CactusJack49: calls $6.45
*** TURN *** [4h 9d Ad]
CactusJack49: checks
dirindo: bets $18.70
CactusJack49: folds
dirindo collected $18.70 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $19.65 | Rake $0.95
Board [4h 9d Ad Qc]
Seat 1: dirindo collected ($18.70)
Seat 2: Al_Gohti (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: doc_oliday (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 4: Micco (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 5: CactusJack49 folded on the Turn
Seat 6: PAM61 folded before Flop
Seat 7: gretko folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: oskar92 folded before Flop (didn't bet)

I know he's got a set of aces. I've got a draw to the nut flush on the flop. I called the flop bet, but just wasn't sure about calling the turn. Obviously I am drawing. If the diamond hits, I've got no implied odds, I think. Help?

CJ

[briachek]

hand 1 - i likely lead out and see what happens. The way you played it, you can't call the flop to fold the safe card on the turn. If you don't think you are good, fold the flop and save money or else reraise and isolate and protect against draws. I cringed when i saw that call and puked when I saw the turn fold. And a sidenote, don't tell them what you folded too.

Hand 2 - fold preflop and fold on the flop. Preflop, all you got is a pair of kings in a heads up pot. If it was multiway and better chance of catching someone on a K high flop, then I would call. On the flop, people pay attention to flushes and will often not pay them off so don't chase them heads up for a pot bet unless you KNOW they will pay you. Plus you are OOP which makes it much harder to get paid off when the flush hits. If you lead out, they often fold or if you check, they check behind and don't give you much if at all on the river unless it pairs the board.

[Spellbinder]

I am a PLO newb but I thought I would take a shot at it .

Hand 1

In my mind when you flop this hand you are not saying to yourself "Quads and lets take this pot home" *grin* . In this case you would have hit quads but that happens under 3% of the time. (1 out , 42 cards left...I think thats right)

I play probably a bit conservative as well but you have mid set and even if the 9 lands for the str8 it is not the nut str8 and you have a possible diamond flush draw in play. I might call the initial bet but once it gets reraised I am pretty sure I am dropping it since I am pretty sure its set against set and my 8s are not looking that good.

The river landing the miracle card is sort of annoying but nothing to get to frazzled about. Considering how many stacks you would lose to the amount won making this play.

If you had the top set on the flop then I would have pushed it. But with a mid set, vs the possible flush and nut str8 draws I am not going to risk my stack. I have lost to much to the underfull and docs betting is just screaming top set to me since that is usually how I would play it (though perhaps I play it wrong )


Hand 2

I think the fold is correct since you are not being given enough pot odds to make that call. If I am reading it correctly you are getting 2 to 1 on your money , but the odds to hit the flush are 5 to 1 so it is not enough to make that call.
Experience has shown me that it is a -EV play in the long run unless the person you are playing against is a donk and is betting the Queen or Jack flush himself.

But with the money he is tossing I think you have to give him credit for the set of aces and release unless you know the player is bad. But even a broken clock can tell time correctly twice a day so some credit has to be given when in doubt.

[Kuso]

i recommend that you accompany posts like this with two dimes numbers. i think this will often make the answer obvious.

hand 1
as you played it, i'd push or fold on the flop. as bri suggested, leading out would be good, too. two dimes numbers would be useful. given that you had two others aggressively in the pot, i'm not sure you had a lot of clean outs (maybe the 8 and the 4s).

hand 2
fold preflop. going for the set works best in multiway pots. it _is_ possible to play these HU for a profit (i stacked three people yesterday doing just this), but you have to be playing against some real showdown monkeys who don't raise pf very often.

fold when you whiff on the flop... you're drawing really thin. again, twodimes numbers will probably show you at about 35% equity with two cards to come, and 18% with one card to come with basically no implied odds if, in fact, villain has the set of aces.

[Cactus Jack]

[Felonius_Monk]