though decision

[euri10]

I don't remember if I had any particular view on the raiser but what would you do on the turn ?
was the flop play good ?

i'll post the end after...

PokerStars Pot-Limit Omaha High, $1.00 BB (7 handed)

CO ($48.25)
Button ($44.30)
Hero ($78)
BB ($40)
UTG ($94.60)
MP1 ($12.15)
MP2 ($94.75)

Preflop: Hero is SB with , , , .
5 folds, Hero raises to $3, BB calls $2.

Flop: ($6) , , (2 players)
Hero bets $4, BB calls $4.

Turn: ($14) (2 players)
Hero bets $9, BB raises to $33, Hero ????

[starstealer]

At this point in the hand, I have to believe you are still on a draw. Kings just won't be enough to take the pot down. In light of that, the BB, after his raise is all in right?

Likely cards that will win for you:

a) any club except the 6c (pairs the board) - 8 outs (2nd nut flush)
b) any non-club jack - 3 outs (nut straight)
c) any non-club eight - 3 outs (nut straight)

So I estimate you've got 14 outs to win with one card to come. 44 cards that are unknown - so you're probably looking at approximately 2.1:1 against for odds.

In terms of the pot, it is $24 more to you to call into a $56 pot. This is slightly better than 2.3:1 - so it seems you are getting your odds.

Note however, that IF your 2nd nut flush is not likely good - you have to fold here. Regardless, it is a small edge - so on this particular hand, you aren't going to be making much from it over the long term (assuming you could find this situation again and again...)

/d

[euri10]

not very proud of it, it was a crying call for me...
in the meantile when i look at my opponent holding i cannot prevent myself from wondering if my bet on the flpo was not to liitle ?


PokerStars Pot-Limit Omaha High, $1.00 BB (7 handed)

CO ($48.25)
Button ($44.30)
Hero ($78)
BB ($40)
UTG ($94.60)
MP1 ($12.15)
MP2 ($94.75)

Preflop: Hero is SB with , , , .
5 folds, Hero raises to $3, BB calls $2.

Flop: ($6) , , (2 players)
Hero bets $4, BB calls $4.

Turn: ($14) (2 players)
Hero bets $9, BB raises to $33, Hero calls $24.

River: ($80) (2 players)

Final Pot: $80

Results in white below:
BB has Qs 3s Ks As (two pair, kings and queens).

Outcome: Hero wins $80.

[starstealer]

Well, I wouldn't call it a crying call - you should be aware that you are behind in terms of your current hand, but since you have the odds (just based on the cards I knew - you were 2.1: 1 to make your hand, but you had 2.3:1 pot odds). As it turns out - you also had 2 more outs to tie (if an ace came off). If you made your hand, he wasn't very likely to improve beyond you (1 king, 2 queens) - so I think this is a solid call. In a cash game.

In a tournament - I think this situation becomes much more muddy...

[Felonius_Monk]

I don't think it's such a bad call either, but as star rightly says, it's a marginal one. In these spots you have to ASSUME your opponent has top set BUT give yourself some extra margin in terms of % that you predict yourself to win the hand on the off chance he has something different.

You do, however, have to worry that he could have something like a set with a flush draw (which would often be played in a similar way to how he played it, the possibility of which will weaken your hand somewhat.

I cannot see your call ever being a big +ve EV (expected value) move here, but then again I can't see it ever being a big -ve EV move either.

One additional point about this hand - AKT9 suited to the king is not that much of a hand and certainly not worth a raise. I would limp with this holding preflop - the double-gap means that it doesn't fill as many straights as you might imagine, and you have no pair to hit a big set or nut flush draw feature. The only reason to raise it up here is to steal the big blind, which is understandable (though it's not something I tend to do out of position from the small blind!), but from any other seat on the table you shouldn't really be raising this preflop.

Also, on the turn, you should bet the pot or check. Betting a little over half pot does not charge him to draw, it leaves you less money to bet on the river, and it allows him to make a big re-raise. Betting the full pot will encourage a fold if your opponent has less than a big set or premium draw and this would mathematically be the best result for you here, although checking is perhaps more conservative. In general, you should aim to always bet the pot in PLO except when there's a specific reason for not doing so.

Monk
xxxxx

[AceInHole]

[starstealer]

[Felonius_Monk]

[euri10]

[euri10]

[AceInHole]

[starstealer]

[Felonius_Monk]

I'm getting tired and spouting drivel hence i deleted some posts from this thread. Suffice to say, the betting does not suggest the opponent has the nut flush draw. How you define your outs and odds is up to your read of the opponent. I agree with starstealer here on his estimation of the likely opponent hands, though I think something like 2 pair with the nut flush draw might be played in this way.

Anyways, ace, there's a simple solution - if you find situations like this troublesome (as many people do), don't get into them. A marginally +ve situation is only good news for you if you feel comfortable playing and make the right decisions more often than not. This is exactly why you should generally avoid committing yourself to such situations.

Solution - check-fold the turn. There is absolutely nothing wrong with doing so and to be honest it's probably how I'd have played it in most circumstances.

Monk
xxxxx

[Felonius_Monk]