Do you make this play?

[Sunbob]

We are down to 5 in this SnG. I had made a bad play early and fought back from the short stack to be in third place when this hand came along.

Sunbob is at seat 1 with 1350.
ric8057 is at seat 2 with 770.
tiger7210 is at seat 3 with 3695.
HardRock69 is at seat 4 with 3685.
Pine_Woods is at seat 9 with 500.
The button is at seat 4.

Pine_Woods posts the small blind of 75.
Sunbob posts the big blind of 150.

Sunbob:

Pre-flop:

ric8057 folds. tiger7210 folds. HardRock69 calls.
Pine_Woods folds. Sunbob checks.

Flop (board:

Sunbob bets 150. HardRock69 calls.

Turn (board:

Sunbob checks. HardRock69 bets 675. Sunbob goes
all-in for 1050. HardRock69 calls.

Tournament all-in showdown -- players show:

Sunbob shows
HardRock69 shows


River (board:

(no action in this round)

Showdown:

Sunbob has 6c 7c Kc Tc Ac: flush, ace high.
HardRock69 has Jc Kc Tc Ac 4c: flush, ace high.

HardRock69 wins 2775 with flush, ace high.

Minimum bet on the flop may have been weak but had been successful at this table if the opponent had missed the flop. I checked on the turn to try to get a read on if he had hit the flush. I figured if he hit it strong he would bet weak to keep me in. I read his bet as trying to push me out (that was my thought process at the time any way). I felt my flush was high so I went for it all.

Okay guys - feedback please.
(BTW, hand converter wasn't working)

[k3nt]

Very humble & somewhat uninformed opinion from a newbie who rarely plays SnGs:

I suppose you could BTP on the flop, but that's tough to do with your draw only, and it probably wouldn't push him off anyway with his big draw.

On the turn, you knew what he had, knew you were ahead, and got your money in. What else is there to know?

I suppose if you're playing just to make the money, then maybe you avoid tangling with the big stack from the get-go. But how do you fold the flush draw on the flop, or the made flush on the turn?

And I suppose you could have saved your last 375 chips and just called the turn, then folded if he bet when the 4th flush card hit. But that's a tough fold to make even then -- with such a big pot he'll put you all-in whether or not he hit the flush.

But to my mind, you played it perfect in every way. Bad luck only.

[GlassJoe]

I'd agree with K3. Can't see where you went wrong. You got all your chips in with the best hand. He had 7 outs, and he hit one. You were an 84% favorite to win the hand after the turn, and he sucked you out. I personally love making the flush on the turn (even a baby one) because I'll take my chances that someone else doesn't have two of the same suit. You'll run into a lot of semi-bluffs with three by the turn if they've got the king- or ace-high flush draw, and you're gonna win that pot better than 4 out of 5 times. What's not to like.

Of course, you've got to know your oponent, but being the big stack at a SnG, you can count on aggressive bets, and he did already make the straight and only a q-high flush had him drawing dead. Can't blame the play of either player. You just got rivered. That's poker, but I wouldn't have changed a thing.

If anything, the most surprising thing about the way the hand played out was him flat calling the flop when he was open ended and big stacked. I probably would have made my move here (were I the big stack), and it might have actually saved the rest of your chips.

[Nashvegas]

I play it differently, here's why:

There are two *dominant* stacks, both 3000+. You have 1300+, your two opponents each have about half that. You are in third place, which means that if things go in any sort of normal way, you make the money.

You see a free flop, get a baby flush draw. I do not bet here!!! I do not call anything here!!! You've got to protect the advantage that you have over 4th and 5th.

Please trust what I've found through my SNG experience. Until you get to the top 3, it is ALMOST ALWAYS better to care ONLY about ITM, and not at all worry about whether you finish 1st or 3rd until you make the money. Once you get in the top three, you will usually have enough chips to work with in order for you to have a reasonable shot at overcoming your opponents, who will almost always be poorer shorthanded players than you will become.

Short version -- always do what maximizes your chance at ITM until you make the top three. Especially when 2nd and 1st are so far ahead of you.

[Sunbob]

Thank you Nash. That is the insight that I was looking for. I know I can argue that I got my money in when I was ahead but I knew that I was missing something. Your reasoning makes sense. One of differences between ring games and tournament play. I have a lot of work to do on my discipline when I am short and I feel the blinds are catching up to me.

[starstealer]

[k3nt]

[starstealer]

[Nashvegas]

Nice to see some post from you, starstealer!! For those of you who aren't familiar with this guy, listen to him! He's got some quality poker knowledge.

Anyway, if you had the 770 stack instead of the 1300+ stack, then I would advocate going all in on the flop, because I would consider myself pretty pot committed given my stack size in relation to the pot and the prospect of increasing blinds. But the fact that your 4th place opponent HAS to make this kind of move pretty soon to survive is just another reason why it's profitable for you, in third place, to just wait things out when you can.

[MrOban]

It only cost the big stack another 500 or so to call your check raise so you didnt really have much fold equity given that he was a big stack. He was now getting close to 4-1 to call the last bet with a J high (2nd best possible draw).

I dont love the checkraise for that reason. You had to bet out to keep out the better flush draws. And tangling with the big stack there is dangerous. I bet the pot on the turn there to shut out any other draws.

[starstealer]

Nice to have the endorsement Nash - I appreciate it. I'm just trying to pretend like I've got more time than I actually do...

I also wanted to ammend my previous post in saying that if I was the shorter stack - pushing on the flop is definitely a better option than just persuing the same course of action (that is betting only 150).

/d

[TexasKowboy]

[Sunbob]

[Nashvegas]

[kingsalami]