Jacks in the second hour

[Juskimo]

This is something I have been wondering about, as it is how I have been busted from 3 of the last 5 MTT I played. Note that I am playing in the lower buy in >20 MTT's right now.

Play my usual uber tight game till somewhere in the second hour.

Sitting on an average stack, say 3500 or so, with the blinds at 100/200. Normally I have played about 4-6 hands to this point.

Pick up jacks in late position. A bigger stack, say 9000 or so, in early position makes it 800 to go. This person is usually moderately solid, but not anything too impressive.

I push, get called by (in the last 3 tourneys) AK, KQ, K9. Naturally get molested on the flop for an ignominious exit (the K93, turn 9 really pissed me off).

How should I be playing this? Call and push any non AKQ flop? Fold (which seems absurdly tight). Stick in some kind of odd reraise, say to 2000 (which probably pot commits me but does allow me to get away on a bad flop)?

I am well ahead of a lower pair, crusing two unders, reasonably well ahead of an over-under, slightly ahead of two overs, and only really behind 3 hands. Does the fact that these guys fall in love with any broadway cards mean that I should not be pushing?

I cant imagine folding and I cant believe that there are a ton of hands (unless they are on a steal) that will fold to the reraise considering the relative stack sizes. Anyone with 77-1010 probably comes along, and if I get reraised (which folding to again seems absurdly tight) Im probably going to call, considering the pot size.

I have been struggling with this and any advice would be appreciated.

-Jus

[MTPaid]

He has a huge stack and is a solid player. If these are your takes I'm pretty sure he isn't raising with anything he wants you to call with. I would throw out AA or KK. Occaisionally a good player will raise that big with AA or KK if he has been taking a lot of bad beats and has no confidence, but with a stack that big he wants to get called with those hands.

QQ is possible. I think it's AK or AQ possibly suited, but more likely offsuit. KQ is a possibility too. Maybe even TT or 99. Now, as to what to do, that is an even tougher question. Any raise is probably going to pot commit you. If you simply call you probably have to throw away after the flop to any overcard. I've been struggling with this too lately, but only because I've seen people turn over anything from 55 to AA when making this raise from EP. Hopefully someone else can give you a better idea of strategy when faced with this decision, but these are the hands I put him on.

[TexasKowboy]

[Juskimo]

[Kuso]

scenario 1

i think you call. the catch is that you also need to call with strong aces and check to them on an A-high flop, too... and CR their stealing asses when they try to CB or value bet a weak A. if you constantly do CRs with flopped strong hands when OOP, some players will take notice and will ease off the CBs. i get lots of free cards this way.

scenario 2

i like the call and evaluate, too. the problem with the no overs rule is that often times tricky players will raise with low and middle PPs and/or SCs as (semi-)bluffs. the no high card flops often hit them hard with a str8, set, or 2pr. as such, i think this play actually requires a decent bit of knowledge of the raiser to play well. i've stacked a few overpairs with this play from EP. of course, most players either aren't tricky or are just stupid, but hopefully you have some reads.

scenario 3 - playing from EP

depending on the texture of the table, chip counts, and blinds, i will sometimes limp and sometimes raise enough to try to get it HU. remember, nobody really knows what you have when you raise from EP, but most people assume it's a relatively strong holding. you get to CB on any flop with high cards OR low cards (not every time, but often), and you'll often know where you stand based on the response. i think you can only do this if you're willing to drop it on a raise on the flop (cheers to him if he's bluffing... i get his stack if i hit my set) and your stack won't be crippled by the pfr and CB.

my failures with this tack (EP raise and CB) have been when: 1) I didn't raise enough to get it HU, 2) didn't raise enough to get people to lay down janky hands like K9, and 3) run into showdown monkeys who like second pair if it's with broadway cards (of course, they're usually still ahead of me, but still...). needless to say, i often get a lot of action when i do have hands.

[TexasKowboy]

If I am first to act then I bet whatever the bet has been to steal the blinds. If it's 4X the BB then that is my bet. Remember it is easier to bet then it is to call. Then I play the hand like I have the best hand what ever the flop and I take it down right then with the pot bet. If I get raised for all my chips I know I am beat and hope I catch a hand before I am blinded out.

Now if I have Jacks and raise 800 and get re-raised for my stack I get pissed off and throw the Jacks in the trash where they belong if I don't know the player or if I know the player to be tight. If I know him to be loose I will call because he could have anything from K10 which I am a big favorite, AK which I am in a coin flip or a higher pair which I say damn the bad luck. The Lag is the guy you want to trap with your big hands. He is the player that is going to give you the chips to make it to the final table.

I like getting agressive the second and third hour but why play hands so well the first hour and then throw your chips away the second.

The reason for the calling and not pushing is that players are real brave pre flop with any Ax. But when it misses the flop there A starts looking real small and LAG will wait for the next guy he can bully and win his chips back.

Remember every hand plays differently against every player. Go after LAG with your made hands and go after TAG with your nut hands or nut draws if you have the odds to do so.

It is all about odds. That's what it takes to make the final table. Not just pot odds but odds the player has a better hand. Now to win it is going to take some luck also.

I am giving JJ and QQ advice. 1010 and lower I will most of the time muck in EP in the second or third hour when it is going to cost me my average stack to play the hand.

Short stacked I'm all in with any 77 or better. Big stacked I am applying the pressure with the same hand. But average stacked I am waiting for Mr. LAG to double me up.