ATTENTION TRIPLE DRAW EXPERTS:

[SebQtaneus]

OK, I played the game tonight with Piers, Xaston, and bobby. I did pretty good for the first half hour and was actually up about $10, but then I started making dumb calls and playing some very marginal hands and took them too far and in the end after about an hour and a quarter, that's 1:15 to the lay person, I had lost nearly my entire 50€ buyin. I made sure to leave before it was all gone so there would be no crowing afterwards about how they had busted me. Would have been nice to have a few more BTP'ers show up but it was still a lot of fun. I'd never played the game for real money before and after losing about $50 to these sharks (although I prefer to think of it as paying for a lesson since they were BTP'ers) I have a questions about a few areas of the game.

Area 51 (actually area #1 but Area 51 just sounds so much more cool)
Starting hand requirements:

I don't have SS2 so I did not get to read up on how to play this game before hand so I just played a bit of play money A-5 Triple Draw at UB to kind of figure the game out. Pretty much the same game with minor differences. Anyway what I kinda figured out for starting hand requirements was that if I'm 'not' in the blinds, I only enter a hand if I have at least 3 cards that are 8 or below and not paired. I only call a PDR (PreDrawRaise) if 2 of those cards are a 2 and a 3.
If I'm in the blinds, then I get a bit looser by lowering the 3 card rule to 2 cards 8 or below, since I already have money in the pot I figure it's worth it to at least see the first draw. As for calling PDR's from the blinds I go back to the 3 card rule and it's requirement for calling raises.
This worked pretty good at the play money tables and with the BTP Sharks (took me forever to figure it out on my own though but then I'm slow and rode the short yellow bus to school and all that) but there was only 4 of us so I don't know if this is too loose for real money tables with 6 players.

Am I on the right track here or was it just beginners luck that it seemed to work decent?

Area #2 Raises - Making them:

PD (PreDraw) - I only raised PD if I was dealt like 4 cards close to the nuts. And 2 of them had to be a 2 and a 3. Basically, I only raised PD if I got 5432 or 6432 or 6532. Is this too tight a requirement for making PD raises in this game? Seems like there should be more times that would be good for a PD raise. Like maybe if youre on the button and everyone limps in you might want to raise to see if you can at least knock the blinds out and maybe a few of the limpers. If so, how loose of a starting hand is ok for this?


RAD (RaisesAfterDraws) - This I just did by feel on how many cards my opponents were drawing compared to mine and how weak the betting seemed to be to that point in the hand.

Is there a better way to go about this? Something to look for besides how many cards my opponents were still drawing for?


Area #3 Raises - Calling them:

PD - Already discussed in my starting hand requirements

RAD - Again, I just did this by feel but was much more lost as to whether or not I was taking my hand too far before dumping it. I mean you can't just dump every hand when some raises just because you haven't made your hand yet right? I'm thinking a lot of it depends on how many draws are left and how close you are to making your hand.
I could really use some advice in this area especially as this is where I lost the most money.

Area #4 Bluffs - Making and Calling

Not sure at all about this part of the game. I made a couple just for the hell of it to see how willing the competition was to push their hand in certain situations. Some worked, some didn't. An example would be like if it was headsup after the PD betting, then after he made his 1st draw and I had position, and he had drawn 3 or 4 cards, I might stand pat on this draw and then either bet out or raise him if he bet into me. Obviously this means he NEEDS to be aware enough to notice that I didn't draw any cards and am now trying to build the pot. Maybe this would have a better chance of working after the 2nd draw if he still drew 3 or more cards and I had only drawn 1 or 2 in the 1st draw but didn't hit my hand or improve much. Anyway, until I know more about them I doubt I will be making many more of them. As for calling them, well, what do I look for to maybe spot what might be a bluff to begin with? I'm sure "live" this would be much more a part of the game but this game isn't played much live and definitely nowhere near where I might play. Since I will probably only ever be playing this game online, what are some things to look for that might indicate he is bluffing?

Area#5 - Endgame Play

I kinda stayed to what I try to do in Limit Hold'em with Endgame play.

If I have position and am facing a check or two, then check behind if the only hands that are likely to call me are ones that beat me. Bet for value if I think I have the best hand and think I can get a call.
If I am OOP then check raise if I think I have the best hand and don't think he will check behind me. Or bet into him if I'm not sure my hand is best and think he will just call or maybe fold if I do so.

Any flaws in this? I'm sure there are but I'd like them pointed out.

That's It. If I can get these things answered then I think I may try some more of this game. It's definitely a nice change of pace and it's always fun to learn a new game that maybe not very many of the folks playing it are any good. Kinda like Limit Omaha H/L is.

[Xaston]

You should DEFINATELY read Daniel's section in triple draw if you plan on playing seriously at all. However I'm a pretty good replacement so tommorow morning when I wake up (1:00 PM), shower, and eat breakfast I will write you a nice little strategy guide.

[SebQtaneus]

Thanks Xas. I don't have SS2 yet as I mentioned in the post but I have heard so many good things about it lately that I will be getting it soon. By "Daniel", are you referring to Daniel Negreanu?
I look forward to reading your strategy guide.

[piersmajestyk]

Edit: I see Xas answered while I was writing. He is certainly a much more accomplished Triple Draw player than myself so certainly take him up on writing that guide for you to follow but as we both have suggested to you you need to get DN synopsis in SS2.

Most of your hands you will play predraw are going to be 2 card draws and you should probably be raising or reraising if you are going to play. You would always prefer no more than one opponent drawing against you unless you have a monster.

Generally if you draw fewer cards than your opponent bet, if you draw the same and are OOP (out of position you might check/call, CR/ Check fold depending on the results of the draw) when IP I would tend to bet if checked to most of the time.

The 2 is the most important card in the deck. Without it you can't make a 7 low. The more duplicate cards that go with your low the more powerful your draw because you are less likely to get duplicated again and those imprtant low cards won't get the chance to show up in your opponents hands.

A two card draw to a hand like 456 should be avoided in most cases. You have to be aware of those straight possibilities which cause problems for your hand.

If you have a pat J and your lone opponent draws in front of you you should stay pat generally as you are a slight favorite against his draw. If 2 people are drawing against you you need a pat 9 to not draw. These of course are both on the last draw.

If you make a pat 86 or better you should not break it.

You don't want to be bluffing with a AKor Q high because the only time you are going to get called is when you are behind. Better hands to bluff on if you bluff are higher pairs like 66 or 77 but you need to have a good read that your opponent is actually capable of throwing away a hand like Q high or worse to make this a viable play on a regular basis.

Sometimes it is better to check in position going into the last draw and you have a decent hand but not great hand like an 87. This will suggest to the person first to act that perhaps you are still drawing and this will cause this person to stay pat generally if they have a pat J or better and then you can stay pat as well. If they check to you bet, if they bet call. This keeps them from getting a last chance to draw out on you if they have a draw that is capable of beating you. You sacrifice one bet on the second draw but you do so to more than likely take the entire pot without a chance for your opponent to catch you.

There are many more subtle things that you will just have to pick up by playing and reading. I am certainly no expert in 2-7 draw so don't take these guidelines as written in stone but I think for the most part that they are correct albeit they just barely touch the surface of the game.

[SebQtaneus]

Thanks Piers,
That really does help.
Watch out though, as I'm now positive that after reading your post and Xaston's guideline writeup tomorrow and Negreanu's section in SS2 when I get it, you guys are going to be kicking yourselves for helping me the next time we get together for a BTP match! I aim to win back that $54.19!!!! Maybe we'll get some more folks to show up next time and I can get it from them though instead!

[Xaston]

[Xaston]