Omaha 8 - No Limit

[teknipper]

I have been starting to play No LImit Omaha 8. A couple things that I have noticed is that is does change the slant of the game from post flop play to preflop play.

One item that I have had trouble dealing with is the post flop monster draw hand when the bet is for all my chips.

Example: Ad 2d 4c Kc with flop of 3c 5d Qd. At this point, I would have a wrap wheel, uncounterfietable low draw, nut flush draw, and back door K high flush draw. If someone goes all in with what I would suspect to be a set of Queens, would you make the call at the NL 25 table? NL 50 table? NL 100 table?

Tom

[Felonius_Monk]

Of course you would you're winning like 2/3 of the equity or something....

[AdamtheExpert]

Well, thank GOD this is still the "ask Adam" section. People come here, to get CORRECT answers

While the hand certainly plays well, against a set of queens, there is a faulty and incomplete perceptions here:

And, not enough information is present.

There are two basic issues here:

(1) how much is "all your stack"? Yeah, it matters, so let's NOT here from the "mathies"

If you've built up, a 200 stack, into 600. DO YOU REALLY WANT TO LOSE IT HERE?

ATE cannot TELL you the number of times, I've had draws like this, only to get the ole'

double P' (that's Pair Picture, for those of you who coulnt' figure it out)


Now, y'all hopefully know, I ain't excatly a chickenshift. But the THINgs that MONK aina't a tellin' ya are:


One, the physcologial impact, of losing a big stack, can cause you to lose a hellofa lot more, than just those chips. Maybe you go on tilt. Maybe you cower in a corner for days, losing out on what you would have made.

Don't laugh, it's normal to do that. Vending machine Robert, will take WEEKS off, after a loss. AND HE'S a good player, with a lot of guts.


Also, we fail to note the tendencies of the person betting all in. If they have a similar hand, plus a big pair, suddenly, we are NOT the favorite.

You can VERY easily, put someone on the WRONG hand!! A2 and a SET, I don't like our hand anymore.

YOU only think THAT THEY HAVE A SET OF QUEENS. You do not KNOW it.

and, here's the BIGGIE, which seperates ATE, the TRUE king of poker, and MONK, good, but NOT the king.


drum roll


dramatic pause


building anticipation . . . .


A lot of the players in this game, are sooooooooooooooo HOPELESS, that they will put in all their chips, when you have them TOTALLY wiped out, or at least TOTALLY freerolling. ZO! why in the PLUCK should you risk your whole stack, with about a

25% chance of getting NOTHING. and a good chance to get QUARTERED,

when if you are just PATIENT, you will have the same situation, when you have your opponent DEAD, or drawing to ONE out.

Believe me, they will DUMP their entire stack, with second or third set, (and no draw)

Or, just nut low, and no high and no backup (when you have low, backup and a pair)

Or, even throw 'em all in, when you have NUT NUT, and they ai'n't a got ONE card to get part of the pot


Now, if you have a small stack, go ahead, if you want to. But, if you've built up, THERE WILL BE A BETTER OPPORTUNITY.

They play like MORONS in this game, they will put IT in, when they have NO chance, JUST wait for it.


Adam

[briachek]

If you have to wait fo have a made big hand plus the nut low (or something like that) to get your whole stack in, what keeps a good player with a big stack from pushing you around because he sees you don't want to lose your entire stack without a monster?

[teknipper]

Well, the fact that there is some discussion on this makes me feel better on having issues with BOTH ways to play this situation. I hate putting all my money in on a draw (albeit a monster) and I hate laying down such a big hand.

However, I think I am going to have to side with ATE on this. Although I hate laying this type of massive draw down, my opponents WILL put money in the pot when they are drawing dead or thin in this game.

Also, ATE's logic does lessen variance which is something that I do strive for. I would rather have 6 out of 7 winnings days for $20 a day rather than 4 $100 days and 3 losing $100 days.

Thanks for the advice all,
Tom

[AdamtheExpert]